[davetjazz]

Sup guys. This has been bugging me forever but as an Alto player and a big fan of Mark Turner's sound (that dry woody thing), I'd like to know what pieces to keep in mind that can put me in the ballpark for that kind of sound...when I'm just rolling in cash... one can dream yeah?

I wonder if it's really as simple as getting an Early Babbitt Link 7 but for alto? (or buying a tenor haha).

For perspective. I currently play a Meyer 5m mouthpiece with Alexander Superial 3 Reeds (really responsive reed but gotta get used to the thin tips) I alternate with La Voz Hard reeds.

What would be the refacing specs to get close to that dry woody tone, rather than that slick spread syrupy sound I get from a Meyer?

Hope this makes sense.

 

[sasin]

A harder reed can help dry up the tone. You can also try playing with a slight sub tone feeling using a looser embouchure in conjunction with the harder reed.

 

[Nefertiti]

The new Phil-tone solstice is nice and dry sounding. I also think the Theo Wanne Gaia is dry but that has a brighter tone which I wouldn't associate with a Mark Turner kind of sound. The Solstice is darker for alto. More towards a Paul Desmond sound.

 

[ATeamMusic]

Get a tenor.

 

[Nefertiti]

Get a tenor.

That's true. If you love that sound so much, why not just get a tenor...............

 

[davetjazz]

Get a tenor.

Haha I was waiting for it. I played Tenor for a very short while, I would probably still be playing it if I had another mouthpiece besides one of those horrible recent Brilhart special mouthpieces and a overly aggressive rico mouthpiece. On the Brilhart, I sounded like Zoot Sims with a rag in the bell. Love Zoot's sound, but not the way I sounded on that horn. and with the Rico mouthpiece, the horn packed too much punch.

What gives me hope is hearing Ben Van Gelder. That guy really knows his way around the horn and plays with that type of tone. He uses a Lebayle with soft reeds. Totally has his own thing going on. I don't know how he does it.

I transcribe alot of Warne Marsh, that kinda helps haha. Yes I do play hard reeds, I buy them cause they are so cheap used on Ebay. But recently I've started to soften up and really learn how to play the saxophone. I think Mark plays #4 reeds on a pretty moderate to open Link... #7.

Ahh Phil Tone Solstice? I'll keep that in mind. thanks Neff.

Any opinions on simply using an Early Babbitt Otto Link on Alto?

 

[Nefertiti]

Early Babbitt links are killer on alto. I used to have a few that were amazing that I miss big time. I've been thinking of finding some more..........I never associated there sound with Mark Turner though. It's hard because Turner's sound is so dark and tenor all the way. Just the fact that it is an alto makes it brighter I think. The EB links I had were refaced by Brian Powell and all played great.

 

[guido]

for A dry tone on Alto the ResoChamber and Slant Links work nicely but I really have been quite won over by the Phil-tone Solstice.

 

[jacobshulman]

Old brilhart Tonalin or ebolin
Hardest reeds you can buy
Open your mouth

 

[hartt97]

Hard rubber Link tone edge.

Here is a clip of my brother Dan going for the dry, Warne type of thing on a hard rubber tone edge 10:

 

[unbalancedaction]

Ben Van Gelder uses a Lebayle mouthpiece that has had custom work by somebody.

Pretty much the brightest mouthpiece you can use. Can you hear it? Of course not, because the sound is in his head.

Mark sounds the way he does because he has chops, uses hard reeds, and really knows how to focus his air, like Ben (among many others). He also hears that sound in his head, a mix between late Trane and Warne Marsh (among many other influences) to make him who he is. Can you personally tell when he was using an EB Link? Or the Guy Hawkins? Or one of his Slants? NO, he sounds like Mark Turner.

No mouthpiece is going to give you that, and besides - try sounding like yourself, it will pay off more in the future. Think of how many Brecker clones have remained, when guys like Josh Redman, Seamus, MARK TURNER, etc. have all crafted their own sound from multiple influences (not all saxophone players). It's been a natural evolution.

You can jump on the bandwagon of a trend, or you can set your own trend.

90% of the college students I get coming to me for lessons go on about how their biggest influences are Mark Turner and Dave Binney, yet they sound NOTHING like them, and they haven't even checked out the tradition. They can't play standards, don't know any bebop language, etc., and they somehow think that they will achieve their goal with that mindset. Music is a personal pursuit, that is truly different for everybody, trying to follow someone else's path is just going to rob you of yourself (which is essentially the major difference between you and the next guy). Anyone can learn Marks bag of tricks, but it's harder to come up with your own. One of the reasons why Mark is so successful is for that fact, he sounds like him.

Dave Liebman once told me that if you listen to the modern guys, you will sound like a cheap imitation - if you listen to the guys THEY listened to, you will sound like a contemporary.

Sorry for the lecture, but I feel like lots of people are missing the point of all of this.

 

[davetjazz]

Wow talk about a thread revival.

Yeah currently I play Hemke 5's shaved down to about a 3 strength.

A few months after this post I got ahold of some softer reeds. Rico Royal 2 1/2s that absolutely drove me insane. I have like 6 reeds left, and they may go in the trash.. Probably my worst buying decision.

Since then I caught a bid on Ebay for some Hemke 5's. I'm hooked. Either play em out the box or shave them down to about a 3. Works pretty nice on my Meyer 5 piece.

And yeah, I definitely do not fit in that 'no history' box that guys can fall into. I've been into Bird, Pres, Bud Powell, 'with the Miles Davis Quintet era Hard Bop era since I was 15. I wouldn't know where to begin to transcribe guys like Turner, just admiring from afar for now haha.

This thread was about me noticing that dry sound Mark gets, combined with a lack of Alto players that get that sound...aside from Ben Van Gelder and Dick Oatts.

Both play weird alto setups. Labayle and Berg respectively. It's all in the throat anyhow. I have since emailed Ben about what he does to work on his tone. He mentioned Top Tones For Saxophone. Out of respect I didn't ask about reeds and ligatures haha.

Dick Oatts really floors me with his sound, he gets this lithe sweet thing happening.

BTW That warne marsh conception on alto is the direction I'm in hartt97. That is inspiring.

 

[hincapiej]

I actually get a really nice dark sound out of my meyer 7m.. course its a 7m.. and I play on 3.5 java greens. So its more about how you blow i guess? I get a dark sound on "Brighter" moutpieces too.. its whether I can control it or not.

 

[hincapiej]

dan sounds good btw very nice

 

[hakukani]

If you're playing such a closed piece with hard reeds, I'd go for a more open piece. I'd stay away from slant links--I have one, and it's one of the brightest sounding pieces I have, other than a Morgan excalibur.

You might want to try a more open Meyer--that'll darken the tone up some. Another alternative would be to get a fairly open selmer soloist, like an F or G.

 

[dctwells]

I played with an alto player that had a total "Mark Turner on alto" thing. He was playing an off the shelf Meyer 5 and Rico Royal #5 reeds. The sound was dry and woody but not in a Desmond way at all. It's worth pointing out that like Mark Turner he had studied with George Garzone in college. A couple things Garzone has his students do that really sends your sound in a certain direction is to play with almost no pressure on the reed and to tongue as little and as lightly as possible. I bet if you get a small opening/hard reed setup, study with Garzone, work on some Bach pieces, and transcribe some Warner Marsh you will start to hear some similarities!

 

[thejazzvp]

Meyer 5 and Rico Royal #5 reeds

Wow, that's an extremely heavy setup. Guy must be a masochist.

 

[Toot Sweet!]

Listen to Will Vinson ... incredible player ... he sounds dry and woody, at least to me.

 

[JazzManCan]

Listen to Will Vinson ... incredible player ... he sounds dry and woody, at least to me.

Definitely agree... Man that guy can PLAY!

 

[Djassoo]

I have an old Guy Hawkins HR alto piece which gets me much of the way towards this sort of thing. I was on an alto mouthpiece hunt a while back and this was the warmest piece I could find. Might be worth looking at vintage Tone Edges too for alto.