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Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
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Discussion Starter #1
Check this out- I bought it under the impression it was a Keilwerth stencil, but it definitely isn't. Opinion so far is that it is a Huller- and I concur, based on the bell-to-body brace being exactly the same as another Huller I owned for a short while. And Huller here means GH Huller - I've never seen an FX Huller although I've heard of them. I've just never seen a Huller with RH bell keys, and never one with these Dolnet-style squared off keys.

Anyone have ANY ideas?

Rolled tone holes, all the extra trills, micro tuner neck, conn shaped LH pinky table, engraved "Reg Number 154682 INTERNATIONAL Nr 129100 TRADEMARK", silver plated.

Large pictures, click on thumbnail to view:


 

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Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
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3,314 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Picture of the octave mechanism, where I noticed a number stamped on the lyre holder: 26242. Perhaps a serial?

On the bottom is the Huller (if it really is a Huller) and on the top for comparison is a 1938 Keilwerth.

Thumbnail, click to enlarge:
 

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Forum Contributor 2007 Distinguished SOTW Member
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820 Posts
I would agree. The bow brace is like hullers. Also the squarish Eb/C keys. Here's another thread with a similar tenor that supposedly is a Weltklang but looks like a Huller stencil to me also.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=61638

Both of these look like a World Luxus tenor that I have that was pretty sure was a Huller but now I am not too sure
 

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Forum Contributor 2007 Distinguished SOTW Member
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820 Posts
I revisited the above referenced post and apparently Weltklang and Huller share a common heritage. So either way it's essentially a Huller.
 

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Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
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3,314 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks James. That post also spoke of later Hullers having RH bell keys, so that answers another question of mine.

I have yet to get one of these together, but I've heard they are great players. Maybe I will keep this one, although with 15 other saxophones in front of it, it will be a while before I get around to it.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member/ Forum Contributor 2010
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A bit of detective work

This may be difficult to follow, but the photos viewable from the link below should help illustrate my comments.

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w237/sax-ony/Kohlert Keilwerth Huller/

To my mind, the only thing about this horn reminscent of a Huller is the fat bell.

Hullers have straight key posts, flat bands where the body sections are joined, a pinky cluster like an SML, and a different octave mechanism from the one on Matt's horn. (See photos of my Huller tenor and alto.) Huller went out of production after WWII, and my tenor is a very late example: its original case carries embossed gold medals recording a prize won at a Paris exhibition of 1937. It is a gorgeous and distinctive horn with all of the typical Huller features, including the pinky cluster. I don't think they ever made a horn with a 6M cluster, or with all these other untypical features.

I can see why Matt thinks it isn't a Keilwerth, but then again it has a Keilwerth octave mechanism. My photos include the octave mechanisms from two very early Keilwerths (both with split bell keys). On these, "GES. GESCH." ("registered", as in a patent or trademark) is stamped on the disctinctive flat section. The mystery horn's octave is almost identical, so here it has a keywork design which was registered to Keilwerth.

By the time the 6M pinky cluster was being copied in Germany, Keilwerth had moved on to a slightly different octave - though still with the flat rhomboid part. So this horn has an out-of-date Keilwerth octave. It also has rounded joints where the body sections are joined (like a Conn) whereas Keilwerth joints, like Huller ones, are flat.

I do have one Keilwerth sax with rounded body joints: it is my earliest, from before they hit upon the name "King" or started using the circular stamp on the back. (The bell is simply engraved "Julius Keilwerth Graslitz Bohmen" with the serial number engraved underneath.) This comes from the time when Kohlert and Keilwerth were collaborating most closely, and I believe it is built on a Kohlert body.

Kohlert used the rounded body joints. They also used a fancy turned bell-body brace (whereas Keilwerth used a plain upcurved rod). The Huller brace is similar to the Kohlert one, but not identical: it's turned shape is less pronounced. I hope my photos show this clearly. I think Matt's horn has a brace with the more deeply incised shape - like the Kohlert rather than the Huller.

So, Kohlert were known Keilwerth collaborators (see Saxpics), and this horn has a Keilwerth octave; Kohlert used a bell-body brace like this one; Kohlert used rounded body joints like these. They also did a lot of stencilling and export - much more than Keilwerth at this time (I'm assuming mid-1930s, by the way) and are more likely suspects in the production of an odd hybrid instrument like this. I still can't account for the oddly squared keys, although Kohlert key shapes were a bit like this when intended to carry pearls.

So, provisionally, Kohlert.
 
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