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Discussion Starter #1

at 2:00

I've transcribed this whole solo, and I know how to play this thing that he does, but how on earth would you write it? At the moment I have "wobble" written over top of the held "F" but there's probably a more technical term than that [rolleyes]
 

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To my ear it is mostly vibrato but the most important element of that is the false fingering that is being used. Watch closely and look at what he does. It appears that in his left hand he plays the forked F, 2 & 3 which in itself will not produce that "F". I suspect the rest of the fingering would be that he at the very least places the F key down in the right hand and possibly the octave key in left.

If I was writing it out I would have the fingering either below if there was space or referenced if not space. I would probably also indicate "wide vibrato" or indicate it graphically with a zig zag type line /\/\/\/\/\/. Watch his chin too and see the movement for vibrato - it is there but not the easiest to see. Because the fingering makes the note unstable I find the vibrato would probably be easier to create that 'wobble'.

By the way, if you like that version I highly recommend you check out the version on the GREAT PARIS CONCERT.
 

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By the way, if you like that version I highly recommend you check out the version on the GREAT PARIS CONCERT.
The Great Paris Concert double album is FANTASTIC! (Another great Hodges solo for transcription is Sunny Side of the Street.)

Johnny Hodges, Harry Carney, Russell Procope, Jimmy Hamilton, Paul Gonsalves - great section. And wonderful trumpet from Ray Nance, Cootie Williams, Cat Anderson and Roy Burrows.

I wore out my vinyl and have the CD now with bonus tracks. As Molly Meldrum would say: "Do yourself a favour" and get a copy.
 

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Buescher Aristocrat 141. As for the note around 2.00 it's a false fingering with a heavy vibratto.
 

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At the moment I have "wobble" written over top of the held "F"
You may have your answer right there. If I was going to add a comment over the note I might write "Over-The-Top Vibrato". (Not really, but that's what it amounts to.)

I'm not sure if there actually is a technical term or notation for what he's doing, but I would probably call it a "vibrato shake" because it's very similar to the shake brass players use. Pete Thomas actually refers to a similar effect as a "Texas Shake". He also calls it a wobble. Both seem appropriate to me.

http://tamingthesaxophone.com/saxophone-wobble.html

In the long run, the player will either know how to achieve the effect or not. No amount of notation will help if they don't. For someone who can do it though, Multi Reed's suggestion of a zigzag line, perhaps with "vibrato shake" written above it, would probably be enough to let the player know what effect to go for. After all...what you're asking is how to notate the effect...not how to explain how it's done...right?
 

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Can't answer the notation question. Great clip by the way.

I thought his horn looked like a TH&C 400. It was hard to see some of the detail but it appeared to have the back-bell pads. I recall that Hodges used Bueschers and was also photographed playing a Vito. DAVE
 

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Discussion Starter #7
To my ear it is mostly vibrato but the most important element of that is the false fingering that is being used. Watch closely and look at what he does. It appears that in his left hand he plays the forked F, 2 & 3 which in itself will not produce that "F". I suspect the rest of the fingering would be that he at the very least places the F key down in the right hand and possibly the octave key in left.

If I was writing it out I would have the fingering either below if there was space or referenced if not space. I would probably also indicate "wide vibrato" or indicate it graphically with a zig zag type line /\/\/\/\/\/. Watch his chin too and see the movement for vibrato - it is there but not the easiest to see. Because the fingering makes the note unstable I find the vibrato would probably be easier to create that 'wobble'.

By the way, if you like that version I highly recommend you check out the version on the GREAT PARIS CONCERT.
Yeah I've got the zigzag line too haha. The fingering I think he's using is normal F2 but with the addition of the fork F in the left hand and possibly also low Bb and C... but yeah I can get the general effect using vibrato + fingering.

And yeah I was actually just checking out the Great Paris Concert yesterday... fantastic stuff!



Thanks CooolJazzz, "Vibrato Shake" seems like the clearest way to write it. Texas Shake sounds pretty cool too haha... I notice a lot of Tenor players do something simlar with Bb3, Ben Webster comes to mind.
 

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Can't answer the notation question. Great clip by the way.

I thought his horn looked like a TH&C 400. It was hard to see some of the detail but it appeared to have the back-bell pads. I recall that Hodges used Bueschers and was also photographed playing a Vito. DAVE
Buescher 141 Aristocrat.
 

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Juan: Maybe you have another clip from the same evening that shows the horn more clearly. I will agree that the neck on Hodges' horn didn't look like the neck on MY TH&C, nor did the engraving. But at about 2:29 when I stopped it and got what was probably the best look at the bell, it sure looked to me like those Buescher 400 back-of-the-bell tone holes (or at least one - it wasn't very clear). Other quick glances at the bell during that playing sequence seemed to show the same tone-holes.

It wouldn't surprise me if a player of Hodges' stature may have had some hybrid kind of horn from Buescher, or maybe mixed and matched some parts. Whatever - it isn't important. DAVE
 

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As for what Hodges is doing here, it looks as if he's fingering the high front-F fingering, followed by palm D, presumably without the octave key. There must be more to it than that, however -- I'm gonna have to mess with this tomorrow and see if I can figure out what he's up to.

*REALLY* cool to hear this and see a partial fingering -- Rabbit clearly had a bunch of tricks up his sleeve!!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
This is a screen cap from the same dvd (Jazz Icons, Live in '58):

View attachment 29623

I don't know much about Bueschers, but those are definitely back-of-the-bell tone holes.

Yeah Kelly, I've been fooling around with fingerings and I get the best result with F2+fork F and lots of jaw vibrato.
 

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Well, thank you. I learned something today. I'd never seen or heard of that model before. Did those precede the TH&C model? DAVE
 
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