[Bkenes]

Many old lacquered saxophones doesnt seem to like to be put to use after beeing stored in a closet for a long time.

I've experienced some horns that looks minty but then the lacquer starts to crackle on placed. That's just from the fact that the case was opened one time after decades of being stored.
How should such a saxophone be stored to prevent further cracks on the lacquer? Plastic bag around the case? Saltbags or siliconebags inside the case?

 

[milandro]

I don’t think there is anything to do about it, the cracking is caused by the shrinking due to de degrading of the chemical compound which loses parts of its composition by slow evaporation and chemical changes (let alon the mechanical action of temperature and or humidity). This is a process which happens in time, making the lacquer crack( that is only the external appearance revealing something happening inside).

Epoxy lacquers are very much more impervious to cracking than other types of lacquer , nitrocellulose, for example has the nasty habit of doing that, and all manner of coatings do this, think of the “ crazing “ on pottery due to the shrinking and expanding of the glaze.

This happens to all kinds of things that are covered with lacquer (or other coatings) for the purpose of protection, not only musical instruments!

I really think that, short of controlling humidity and temperature in museum like conditions ( I’ve worked in a National Library and have a certain experience with conservation,) you can't do anything at all to really prevent it, and even then, there will be a natural process of degradation affecting things even if kept under the best of conditions.

It’s as natural process, as natural as aging and despite every claim to the cpontrary no one has found the fountain of eternal youth.

I’d be very careful with wrapping a saxophone in a plastic bag for long period of times, chances are that that alone could cause even more problems encouraging mould ( the presence of which is almost certain) to grow in and on the pads.

 

[soybean]

I’ve always heard that it was due to rapid temperature change. There are a lot of articles online about lacquer cracking on guitars. You should probably look for those.

 

[Bkenes]

Well... this was not what I was hoping to read this morning. I assume that you are right, since you've been working with conservation. I'd love to find a way to protect saxophones from these problems. But if there is nothing one can do... that's just sad.
Thanks for your input though. Someone had to be the one bringing the bad news.

I don't think there is anything to do about it, the cracking is caused by the shrinking due to de degrading of the chemical compound which loses parts of its composition by slow evaporation and chemical changes (let alon the mechanical action of temperature and or humidity). This is a process which happens in time, making the lacquer crack( that is only the external appearance revealing something happening inside).

Epoxy lacquers are very much more impervious to cracking than other types of lacquer , nitrocellulose, for example has the nasty habit of doing that, and all manner of coatings do this, think of the " crazing " on pottery due to the shrinking and expanding of the glaze.

This happens to all kinds of things that are covered with lacquer (or other coatings) for the purpose of protection, not only musical instruments!

I really think that, short of controlling humidity and temperature in museum like conditions ( I've worked in a National Library and have a certain experience with conservation,) you can't do anything at all to really prevent it, and even then, there will be a natural process of degradation affecting things even if kept under the best of conditions.

It's as natural process, as natural as aging and despite every claim to the cpontrary no one has found the fountain of eternal youth.

I'd be very careful with wrapping a saxophone in a plastic bag for long period of times, chances are that that alone could cause even more problems encouraging mould ( the presence of which is almost certain) to grow in and on the pads.

 

[milandro]

you can try to put your saxophones in a vault with temperature and humidity control ( much like a museum vault we had those where we kept things and even then there was a certain amount of degradation to expect ) , and that would control some of the variables , somehow, but think that the majority of lacquer on organic base are “ alive” in the sense that they react with lots of things around, mainly the air, not only, that by the time they have reached you they have already had few years of interaction with the environment where they were kept, the physical action of expansion contraction may be slowed but the chemical changes in the structure of the lacquer can’t ( well, you may put you saxophones in vacuum , next to controlled temperature.... I don’t know how practical that would be!).

Plastic itself could release chemicals that may damage the lacquer in the long run, one of the worst things was probably the glue used in the old cases to glue the plush

 

[Bkenes]

Well the vault thing might be a bit difficult....

Should I put it in a newer case?
Is the use of desiccant good or bad?

 

[milandro]

desiccant may prevent forming of condense, but unless you live at the tropics it won't do much and only act locally, besides, dessicant itself releases chemicals ( some time ago in the EU desiccants were required to be accompanied with a fact sheet because some were deemed releasing harmful gasses or be dangerous because accidental ingestion, when I worked as export manager of a Taiwanese company they stopped only the baritones due to be sent to an Italian company because they didn't come with a fact sheet showing exactly what was in the bags).

this is the king of data sheet

https://www.carlroth.com/medias/SDB...UzZTZlOGM1YWRkMjViMzhhMjFmM2E1Mjk1MmQ3YWRiZTQ

If you really want to do this then use a dehumidifier and a thermostat , Much better a solution but my opinion is that this would make little to no impact, in the end.

 

[Bkenes]

I guess Sweden is even less tropical than the Netherlands
I've read the entire data sheet but can't say that I understood all of it. I do however understand your warning about it releasing harmful gasses. So I guess that's out of the question.
My conclusion is now: I'll just store the saxophone in the case - inside my tiny walk-in-closet.

And I shouldn't have a collection of minty saxophones unless they are silver/gold plated

 

[milandro]

he tech sheet was only an example, it will be of no use to you, it has largely a bureaucratic function for the customs

you can certainly use a dehumidifier in your walk in closet and a thermostat , that would keep everything inside as close as possible to a neutral situation, whether this would slow down cracking is a matter of waiting, you will know over 30 years

 

[Bkenes]

Thanks but I think (hope) it's dry enough in the closet. And I don't have room for a dehumidifier there.

 

[hnthere]

Does the temperature in your closet get especially warm in the summer or cold in the winter? One wall of my bedroom closet is the south wall of my house and another wall, which goes down at a 45-degree angle, is the bottom of the roof, with minimal insulation. I've never put a thermometer in there, but the temperature changes dramatically, even in a single day. Do things get a musty smell in your closet? In cold months, any moisture in the air that gets in my closets will want to condense on something.

I live in a small, old house with no air conditioning in the summer and we let it get pretty cool in the winter. We have very little closet space and both closets would be terrible homes for instruments, even if there were space for them. My new tenor is hanging on the bedroom wall. I need another wall hanger for my alto, which is back in its case on top of the dryer. My wife's guitars hang on dining room walls and she re-tunes and then de-tunes them every single time to avoid damage.

My house isn't a place for conserving fragile things and that's a factor in our purchasing decisions.

 

[Bkenes]

I don't think it gets warm or cold. Not especially at least. It's not musty or so.

Well I'm collecting both saxophones and comic books. I'd say comic books are harder to store well than a saxophone. At least they don't take up as much space

 

[milandro]

seriously, if you have paper to store, a small portable dehumidifier is a good idea, they cost very little ( as for space much depends how many comics you store, I know people with meters and meters , this is how you measure stored publications, of comics !)

https://www.amazon.com/Gurin-Thermo...4db-4490-a794-9cd9552ac58d&tag=geekcontent-20

 

[Bkenes]

My comic book collection is currently limited to a few different comics and early years in good condition. Therefor it isn't one of these sick collections that takes up all the space. I only have around 1500 or so. I don't want any more. I prefer to just upgrade the condition instead of getting a larger collection.

Wow, that one was really small. Didn't know there where so small dehumidifiers. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[milandro]

they are very useful in many small places, my sister uses them in her wardrobe