[Kenneth G]

Magnificent Sax Masters, I have come with small, humble question to beg your advice. I am kneeling before you, my Masters, please help me know where to find the proper blue paint to reblue these springs. How is it possible to fix these springs, as shown in the attached photo? Does it help if I have aluminum foil?

 

[CashSax]

I'm no repair expert but if the springs are really rusty and corroded seems you would simply have them replaced..yours don't look blued to me, they look pretty good actually from your pic. Cleaning with a bit of fine steel wool and then oiling them should fix them right up. Now let's hear from the real experts..:bluewink:

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

If there is something wrong with those springs, the photo does not show it.

The blue colour is a result of the heat treatment they receive at manufacture. You could attempt to do re-do it but the result is most likely to be wrecked springs - either brittle or too soft/bendy.
(Basically, you polish the metal surface bright and shiny, then heat it until the spring turns just the right colour. It's tricky for small items - you need excellent temperature control. Google heat treatment of steel)

If you want a blue colour and somewhat better rust protection, especially if subsequently oiled, then you could go to any gun shop and buy some vile liquid used for blueing steel. (Wash it off well after using it.) I have no idea what that would do to the brass though, so you would be best to remove the springs to do it. And then you are likely to break some.

 

[milandro]

I too am not a tech, so don’t need any of the reverence.

Indeed, like Cashsax says, are you sure that your springs were blue to start with? Which saxophone are you talking about?

The close up with extremely small depth of field shows two springs which do not appear to be blue (nor do they look rusted!).

They might have been even goldplated or (but less likely because they are needle springs) stainless steel. In both cases you shouldn’t be able to blue them (although the chemical that Gordon is talking about might do something to the stainless steel).

If, by any chance, your springs have never been blue and they are not rusty, perhaps you want to blue them because you think that blue springs are superior?

In that case I would most certainly leave them well alone.

Many illustrious companies used gold plated springs (still sold, for example by Music Medic) and few others use stainless steel springs , while there are lots and lots of cheap saxophones using blue springs made in China .


If your springs work and they are not rusty to the core but only superficially, there is no point (!) in changing them until they fail (which might very well be never).

 

[Kenneth G]

this is a Bundy I alto #490801 mfg. in 1969. which seems to be have been well-cared for and maintained in the past, also played for many hours, judging by the wear on the finger and palm touches. I received this covered in mold and mildew from Hurricane Katrina. I am currently attempting to adjust the keywork and install the new pads. I hope to restore the springs to their original beautiful blueness, but it seems that the best advice is to leave them alone? Doesn't the blueness help to slow any rust or corrosive build up? The sax was in terrible moldy condition, but the springs looked much better, except for the few rusty spots. I hope this new attached photo shows the springs. View attachment 142322

 

[milandro]

In all honesty from here your springs look no worse than many other vintage horns which didn’t go through flooding, so, I personally wouldn’t worry too much, if and when the spring would fail then I’d change it.

At most you could clean the worst of the rust and lightly oil the spring. I am quite sure that oxidation will stay only superficial as it does with most springs showing a bit of rust on the surface.

here a few of the many threads on rust on springs for you to read and some advise given by Gordon in another thread.

I use a small rotary wire brush to remove surface rust, then treat all the springs with a rust inhibitor (Dinitrol AV30) that dries to a firm wax.

If the rust is deep then you run a greater risk of the spring suddenly snapping, especially if that rust is at the most stressed area, near the post. Replacement may be advised.

It is common for all the springs to start rusting on top quality saxes in non-Arizona climates within a couple of years.

A good case for well-designed, high-quality, stainless steel springs. It is VERY rare for a stainless steel spring to break, because they do not have the same brittle quality.

I suppose the manufacturers are obliging an archaic perception by some players that steel needle-springs are in some way better.

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?130560-Removing-rust-from-needle-springs
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?210247-Rusty-Springs
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?27912-Rusty-Spring

 

[Raphyel]

The springs look fine to me as well. I have seen some that have been really really bad before. No need to reblue them, but someone could simply replace them all which would be a lot less labor intensive than trying to remove them and reblue them all.

 

[Kenneth G]

regarding this rust inhibitor, Dinitrol AV30, which here would cost $33 + $20 shipping, is there a less expensive alternative that may do the job? I've also looked at the 'fishoilene' product (brandname-Killrust) Master Gordon advised in another post, but I can't find how to order this in the U.S.

 

[milandro]

These products to be very cheap (any good?)

this first

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/rust-remover-0477924p.html

and then maybe this

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/rust-check-rust-inhibitor-spray-0477907p.html

 

[CashSax]

The "Blueness" does not slow or stop rust. Only Gold or stainless will do that..I drop a tiny bit of oil on my blued springs when oiling the rest of my keys.

Btw I use Valvoline 10-40..:twisted:

 

[Instrument Attic]

Birchwood Casey makes a good rust inhibitor (Barricade) and a paint-on liquid bluing solution (Perma Blue). You can get them at gun supply stores if shipping is too much.

The bluing is cosmetic and some customers "need" it. The rust inhibitor works great after you remove the rust with fine steel wool.

View attachment 142330 View attachment 142338

 

[livingthedream]

are these saxophones even worth spending so much time on anyways,let alone changing pads and springs?

this is a Bundy I alto #490801 mfg. in 1969.

i suppose better than buying a new chinese saxophone,so it does probably save the environment some!

 

[JfW]

That doesn't look too bad. just knock whatever rust you can with a rotary tool or scouring pad/steel wool. Just remember to protect the body.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

The "Blueness" does not slow or stop rust. Only Gold or stainless will do that..I drop a tiny bit of oil on my blued springs when oiling the rest of my keys.

Btw I use Valvoline 10-40..:twisted:

Bluing consists of a non-rust oxide or compound on the surface. It does[/I] off a little protection, similar to the black finish on steel tools.
Part of the idea of chemically blueing guns is that it makes a microscopically rough surface which is good for retaining protective oil/wax/whatever.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

regarding this rust inhibitor, Dinitrol AV30, which here would cost $33 + $20 shipping, is there a less expensive alternative that may do the job? I've also looked at the 'fishoilene' product (brandname-Killrust) Master Gordon advised in another post, but I can't find how to order this in the U.S.

Dinitrol changed its name to "Ardrox 30". One can is enough for 1000 years on sax springs. I settled on that because it came highly recommended from Air New Zealand engineers who use it on corrosion-susceptible surfaces on aircraft (and hav an outstanding record for their aircraft servicing).

I once put a quantity of CRC 5-56 in a container to evaporate on my windowsill for about year. What was left was a very, very sticky, almost-solid mess. I guess that would offer protection against corrosion becuase it would seal a surface from the air and moisture. However the stickiness would hold a lot of dust.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

The springs look fine to me as well. I have seen some that have been really really bad before. No need to reblue them, but someone could simply replace them all which would be a lot less labor intensive than trying to remove them and reblue them all.

The trouble with replacing them is that available needle springs in the last couple of decades have been mostly poorly heat treated, and as a result are brittle enough to compromise reliability, especially if they are shortish and thickish, like G# closing springs tend to be.
Better to stick with old ones where possible.

 

[IBeOmega]

I bought a bunch of springs from Ferree's, and I've never had an issue. Well, actually I am annoyed that they're sharp on the ends, but they're called needle springs after all and that's what the rock on my bench is for. The two techs in the area get their springs there as well.

I see no reason you couldn't use some gun blue. Of course, by the time you see the price of a bottle of gun blue from which you need a few mL, and the trouble you'll have to go to in order to keep it off the brass on your horn (either lots of precision masking, or removing the springs altogether) you'll probably decide it isn't worth it for any springs that are already installed, but you can blue them, yes.
If it's isolated to those two keys (low C and D#?) a better solution is taking those two keys off every few months and giving the springs a coating of mineral oil. That should do the job without harming anything else. Other oils exist that can offer longer-term protection, but heck if I remember what they're called.