[AndyBlackard]

I'm a restarter and I'm finding my practice time limited by the point my bottom lip gets too sore to practice more. Is there a fix?

 

[magical pig]

Bonsoir,

well first of all, if you're getting back into sax playing after a long break your lips are gonna hurt but, it shouldn't hurt to the point you can't play anymore or bleed... You should always have an air-tight yet relaxed embouchure in order to be comfortable while playing and sound good. The pressure from your mouth shouldn't be vertical like when you chew something but rather horizontal like when you used to suck on your thumb... really, I mean it. The muscles in the corners of your lips should work more than those in the middle.
It takes some time to get it right and automatic but that's the only way to go.

Maybe you should tell us what setup you play on as well. You might be playing either a mouthpiece that's too open for you or too hard a reed.

Victor.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Think of your mouth as one of those drawstring bags closing around the mouthpiece.

 

[Henshaw]

What I've found that helps with preventing bottom lip pain is using cigarette paper over your bottom teeth (silly but true). Try using 2-3 sheets folded over. This will give you a bit more endurance to push through with practice. I know of many pro players who use this to help them get through hours of practice a day.

Another thing you may want to consider is thinking about gradually increasing your practice time. Maybe start with 15min a day then gradually increase it back up to what you had it. If you thinking about it, playing saxophone requires a similar mind-set to athletes (meaning you need to practice/playing regularly to keep improving and in top form). You wouldn't expect a marathon runner who hasn't trained to go straight into the Olympics would you?

Just a thought.

 

[JL]

Aside from using a reasonably relaxed embouchure, the real trick to this is "time in the saddle." Work up gradually to playing a certain amount of time every day and you'll soon overcome any lip pain or need to use cigarette papers over your teeth. The more you play, without overdoing it at first, the longer you'll be able to play without pain.

 

[Tenortones]

no, no, no

Think of your mouth as one of those drawstring bags closing around the mouthpiece.

NO, NO, NO-this is a misconception unless you are strictly a classical player (French School). No offense, but I went through this problem recently and you have to check out Joe Allard teachings on embouchure. The lip should be spread out across the bottom, to the point where you can nearly feel the reed with the teeth. You shouldn't need paper or feel pain in this regard, also of course make sure you use a reed with enough resistance. Don't equate the reed strength with playability. It takes awhile but there's exercises you can do to develop the embouchure.

 

[hakukani]

Larry Teal (drawstring bag approach) founded the American School of sax playing--it's not just French.

There's a whole long discussion of Teal vs. Allard school of embouchure concept.

I've decided that they're two different ways of getting to the same place.

 

[NatureColor]

NONONO!!! haha wow.. anyways, I like the french school. It's the best to me. There is no lips pain or what so ever. Allard is good but I like Sinta and Teal's method not because it's better but it works well for me.. =D You can get a straw and just put like 1 inch in your mouth and wrap your lips around it like a ooooooo sound. I've experienced what you're saying! try it.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Ok, but that's just what I was taught, so...

 

[CountSpatula]

Keep practicing...or you can get mouth guard for your bottom teeth that football players use except cut them so they're smaller...helps for 4-6 hour rehearsals...

 

[asaxman]

Larry Teal (drawstring bag approach) founded the American School of sax playing--it's not just French. There's a whole long discussion of Teal vs. Allard school of embouchure concept. I've decided that they're two different ways of getting to the same place.

You could see coming a mile away, LOL. I came up with the Teal method, and have used it everyday for 45 years! I recently looked into the Allard method at: http://www.joeallard.org/ I find it VERY interesting, I guess you CAN teach an old dog new tricks! The bottom line is that NEITHER embouchure should give you a sore lip, since they are both based on relaxation. As mentioned earlier, your reed may be too hard, your mouthpiece too open, or your embouchure is just too tight. A good teacher can help A LOT!

 

[AndyBlackard]

Great suggestions!

Thanks, everyone. This is great information.

I had a lesson tonight and my teacher said I was trying to curl too much of my bottom lip in for one thing.

But the other comments made here hit the mark too.

The other thing was that I was trying to play some on a harder reed this weekend but ended up backing down to 2-1/2. He said the harder reed probably caused some soreness.

Andy

YAS-62-II (5c mpc)

 

[AndyBlackard]

Bonsoir,

well first of all, if you're getting back into sax playing after a long break your lips are gonna hurt but, it shouldn't hurt to the point you can't play anymore or bleed... You should always have an air-tight yet relaxed embouchure in order to be comfortable while playing and sound good. The pressure from your mouth shouldn't be vertical like when you chew something but rather horizontal like when you used to suck on your thumb... really, I mean it. The muscles in the corners of your lips should work more than those in the middle.
It takes some time to get it right and automatic but that's the only way to go.

Maybe you should tell us what setup you play on as well. You might be playing either a mouthpiece that's too open for you or too hard a reed.

Victor.

Thanks. One of the things is that I played tenor as a kid and I'm restarting on alto. But getting that airtight seal that you mentioned is something that I need to work on because the mouthpiece is smaller and I need to adjust my embouchure for that.
-andy

 

[king koeller]

Lets review....

Use a firm but relaxed embouchure...
Chose an easy flexible reed not a plank!...
Play a nice med open mouthpiece not the grand canyon!
A dentist can make a dental bottom teeth cover.
Believe it or not, long, low tones build up the embouchure muscles.
Use a metronome, and play low tones for certain counts,
Example...Play a Chromatic scale ascending from low Bb,
hold each note for 16 beats at MM=80, 24 beats at MM=112,
32 beats at mm=136, and so forth .
The object is to completely relax and get a deep, full, dark and rich tone.
Good Luck!

 

[crescent]

Joe Alllard has terrible teeth problems and leaned how to play without biting. Please check out his method. I had a very sore lip until I learned the Allard principles.

For example: try playing and the lifting your upper lip off the mouthpiece. Does your sound continue or stop? Joe taught his students to be able to produce a tone that way.

Can you play a tone with the mouthpiece upside down?

Can you play in the upper register without using your octave key?

Can you play in he lower register even though your octave key is raised?

If you do enough practice of the overytone (harmonic series) exercise, you will be able to some of this. It's not easy! But it well worth the effort. It completely changed my playing.

Joe had many students. With a little help and luck, you can find a local guy who can help you.

Also, when your chops hurt go to the piano. You can learn alot by playing chords and tunes.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[NatureColor]

Also, if you evenly distribute the pressure around the whole embrochure then your lower lips won't get cut and be hurting or soring, and perhaps play some long tones? I can play for 5 hours straight without a cut on my lips, but I can defientely feelt he soreness around the lips and the face, also try using your air more than the emrbochure to make sounds.

 

[Nobby Keys]

I don't think anyone else has mentioned this, but take some time to get the neck strap in the right position. Adjust it so that when you swing the sax mpc up to your mouth its not putting any excessive pressure on your bottom lip/teeth. Also keep checking this during your playing, as most straps slip a little.

Its worth checking anyway. Good luck.

 

[AndyBlackard]

More great suggestions...Thanks Guys!

I'll try to focus on this issue while practicing this week.

I'm also leaking air when I play repeated staccato in the upper range. These embouchure suggestions might help with that too.

-Andy

 

[JL]

In regard to the particular problem you are describing, I don't think it's a matter of using either the Teal or Allard method. It's more a matter of relaxing the embouchure a bit and not biting. This applies to either method. So that would be the first thing to work with, not getting bogged down on Teal vs Allard. The other thing, as I mentioned earlier is conditioning. You have to play on a regular basis and your lip should stop hurting (assuming you've taken care of the any biting issues).

 

[AndyBlackard]

In regard to the particular problem you are describing, I don't think it's a matter of using either the Teal or Allard method. It's more a matter of relaxing the embouchure a bit and not biting. This applies to either method. So that would be the first thing to work with, not getting bogged down on Teal vs Allard. The other thing, as I mentioned earlier is conditioning. You have to play on a regular basis and your lip should stop hurting (assuming you've taken care of the any biting issues).

Thanks. I'm practicing in 20-30 minute sets and I've worked up to 3-4 sets. I just restarted about 5 weeks ago.