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Used horn has a mouthpiece that is very solidly stuck. May have been stuck for years from the look and feel of it. I’ve tried to twist and/or pull it until I’m afraid of causing damage to the neck from the amount of force I’m exerting, and it hasn’t budged. Mouthpiece is nothing special but I’d prefer not to take a hacksaw to it on general principles and especially to avoid the risk of slipping and damaging the neck or the Microtuner. Any suggestions or tricks I might try?
 

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the problem here is the microtuner otherwise I would simply soak it in warm water.

try soaking the mouthpiece alone (not the entire neck) in warm water ( especially if the mouthpiece is nothing special go around 60ºC ) for some time (at least until the water is lukewarm) and then, gently, try easing the mouthpiece. If persistent, repeat.

Put also some liquid soap in the shaft of the mouthpiece.

Maybe a little of soap would penetrate in between the cork which has hardened with gunk and oxidation. Good luck!
 

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I can't believe that the cork didn't come off when you were twisting on it? The cork will need replacement anyway so I wouldn't worry about that. I think milandro's solutions seem right.
 

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Twisting the mouthpiece to remove it will not harm the neck since the cork will break apart before the metal twists. Putting your hand in a leather glove to grip the mouthpiece can give you more torque if it is needed. The bits of cork that will be left on the neck can be cleaned off easily. The cork stuck in the shank of the mouthpiece is another matter. Soaking the mouthpiece in tepid soapy water for several hours and then using a stiff brush or a dull scraper usually works. Using warm or hot water if the mouthpiece is hard rubber can cause it to turn color and cause sulfur to leach out of the ebonite giving it an unpleasant smell.
 

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A few months ago, I bought an old Kohlert tenor with a vintage no Florida USA Link stuck firmly on the neck. Following advice on another thread, I put the neck and mouthpiece in my freezer for 30 minutes or so. After that it came right off--along with most of the old worn-out neck cork, which my tech handily replaced.
 

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Good tip! I would probably make up an emulsion of hot tap water and Ballistol and throw the neck/mouthpiece in for an hour or so, but that freezer deal would definitely be worth a try. I would give it an hour.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll start by freezing it overnight. If that doesn’t do the trick I’ll give it a warm water soak.

As for the comment not to worry about twisting it because the cork will tear before the metal deforms, I’m not confident enough to give it experimental testing. Not at all confident in strength of sheet metal, especially after seeing a few pull downs it scares me to think I might be looking at some new wrinkles where there weren’t any before. Hopefully the freezer or the warm water will suffice so I don’t have to do this experiment.

Thanks again to everyone. I’ll report results as soon as I have them.
 

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Freezing it overnight's probably overkill. As 1saxman suggests, about an hour should do it.
 

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To add to the freezer recommendation, I froze mine still didn't budge so while it was still frozen I ran very warn water through the neck from the tenon end and the still frozen mouthpiece came right off.
 

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we had established that the the mouthpiece can be sacrificed
 

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I'd put a bunch of penetrating oil down between the mouthpiece and cork. It might loosen the bond of the cork to the MP, or soften the cement under the cork, but I bet either way a couple days' soaking with Liquid Wrench or Kroil will have that sucker coming right off. You're going to have to clean everything up and replace the cork, anyway, and the penetrating oil will just wash right off with some dish detergent.
 

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To add to the freezer recommendation, I froze mine still didn't budge so while it was still frozen I ran very warn water through the neck from the tenon end and the still frozen mouthpiece came right off.
Interesting that this worked for you, but it is counterintuitive to me. It would seem that the warm water in the neck would cause it to expand, causing the the still cold and hence shrunken mouthpiece to become tighter. It would seem to make more sense to put conjoined pieces from the freezer, then put the mouthpiece in a bowl of warm water and leaving the neck dry to remain colder. But since your method worked for you, perhaps my logic is flawed.
 

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the expansion and moistening method will work differently than the freezing which, probably will break the cork rather then ease it loose (or break it ether way because it soaks the cork which will desolve).

I have had this before buit never on a horn with a microtuner. There are many ways to skin a cat, not the same cat though ( once you start skinning do that!)
 

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Interesting that this worked for you, but it is counterintuitive to me. It would seem that the warm water in the neck would cause it to expand, causing the the still cold and hence shrunken mouthpiece to become tighter. It would seem to make more sense to put conjoined pieces from the freezer, then put the mouthpiece in a bowl of warm water and leaving the neck dry to remain colder. But since your method worked for you, perhaps my logic is flawed.
I don't think your logic is flawed. This is exactly what I thought as well. There must have been a different mechanism that allowed the pieces to separate.
 

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If you soak it, then freeze it, I would expect the expansion as the water drawn between the mouthpiece and neck as it turns to ice will break the "sticktion", and then when it warms up and the ice melts again it should come apart easier.

The other thing that occurred to me was to steam the neck/ mouthpiece, which will turn any residual cork grease to liquid, enabling the mouthpiece to be freed. Just theories though at this point.

Interestingly (well, to a materials nerd) Hard Rubber has about four times the thermal expansion coefficient of brass, meaning that heating the combination "should" result in the mouthpiece getting looser... So freezing will make the mechanical fit tighter. On the otherhand it will also make the cork and rubber more rigid and less grippy, same reason your tires dont grip very well when the real cold winter weather hits.
 

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I don't think your logic is flawed. This is exactly what I thought as well. There must have been a different mechanism that allowed the pieces to separate.
The issue is not so much the actual friction between the pieces but that they "fused" over time. So either hot (expansion) or cold (contraction) will break that bond at least in some areas because they will happen "out of sync" and facilitate the separation. Another possibility is to take it to your dental tech and apply ultrasound or get one of these little ultrasonic tubs and the pieces will come apart immediately.
 

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Personally I don't think methods mentioned have much to do with differential thermal expansion, which would be very, very small, and to me, rather irrelevant when it involves a material as flexible as cork.

However if the "glue" is hardened (substandard) cork grease, then heat may well lower its viscosity so that the mouthpiece comes off.
Or cold may make it more brittle, such that it snaps apart more readily.

I can't believe that the cork didn't come off when you were twisting on it? The cork will need replacement anyway so I wouldn't worry about that. I think milandro's solutions seem right.
The average player would restrict the forces used to get the mouthpiece off, afraid of bending or twisting the neck.
On the other hand, experience teaches a tech to get very ("intuitively"?) knowledgeable re the various behaviours of the materials involved. Such a tech is likely to exert a lot more force than the average player might be prepared to risk. Also, with so much of his work involving wrenching with tools, a tech may have hands that are a fair bit stronger than the average player.

So one solution is to just twist harder, of get somebody who can do that.

On the other hand, there is always the possibility that some misguided soul has, for whatever reason, glued the mouthpiece to the neck. In this case heating the metal - hotter than 100C - might be called for.
 
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