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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, I have been away from SOTW for a while and now I am back and need some advice.
I recently acquired a Bundy baritone low-A sax which has the upper body bent forward with a nick right above the front upper Bb hole. By removing the Bb key on the back side (right hand key) I think I could get into the body and straighten it out from inside.
Now here is my question. What is the right way of doing this? Should I just try to knock it out? Should I first heat the metal? Do I need to pull the body back at the same time?
Suggestions welcome!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Here is a picture of the dent from inside.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
And this is from the outside, by the left hand pinky table
 

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Are you employed as a sax technician? That's not a 'nick' - that's a major dent and that's not all - see the post base pushed into the bore. The upper loop will have to be removed to fix the dents and straighten the body. When the dent under the post is pushed out, the solder joint will probably fail. But if you were a sax technician and capable of doing this job, you would already know that.
 

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Now here is my question. What is the right way of doing this?
Suggestions welcome!
Being next to two tone holes is challenging. Be patient for the great techs to chime in. Meanwhile see if you can post some more pictures at different angles with better detail. The more seen the better the advice. Like take it to a qualified tech so the stack is aligned correctly in place.
 

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What you should do is go see a tech and ask to watch.

You need some serious tools to do this right.

Most techs would let you check out the process.

You can cause a whole lotta damage doing this wrong.

Best of luck.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

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That is significant damage, but it is also significant damage that can be fairly easily repaired by a technician with the necessary skills.

I have been doing the vast majority of work on my saxophones for 40 years, and I am also a qualified mechanical engineer and machinist, and I would not take that repair on. Also a horn that has taken that hard of a shot probably has a lot of other misalignment problems that you can't see because you don't know what to look for.

Get thee to an expert repair person. You will be glad you did.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you for your great suggestions.
No I am not a professional technician, but I have been able to repair other saxophones in the past, soldering back posts and braces, straightening out dents, but this is the first 'serious' dent which is causing issues with rods etc. The sax plays though, but before I spend more time on it I would certainly like to get this out of the way.
What I have read is that one should be careful not to stretch the metal. I guess this means not hammering it and making it come out as a bump instead, then it can never go back in again.
About removing the upper loop. Is this the curved tube on top of the crock? Is it possible to solder this part off with the rest of the sax/crock intact? (Lots of heat needed in two places at the same time to do that).
 

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What I have read is that one should be careful not to stretch the metal. I guess this means not hammering it and making it come out as a bump instead, then it can never go back in again.
About removing the upper loop. Is this the curved tube on top of the crock? Is it possible to solder this part off with the rest of the sax/crock intact? (Lots of heat needed in two places at the same time to do that).
All the reasons to have a well experienced tech do the work. Not a repair easily done. Just a little off on the heat and you could soften the metal.
 

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Thank you for your great suggestions.
No I am not a professional technician, but I have been able to repair other saxophones in the past, soldering back posts and braces, straightening out dents, but this is the first 'serious' dent which is causing issues with rods etc. The sax plays though, but before I spend more time on it I would certainly like to get this out of the way.
What I have read is that one should be careful not to stretch the metal. I guess this means not hammering it and making it come out as a bump instead, then it can never go back in again.
About removing the upper loop. Is this the curved tube on top of the crock? Is it possible to solder this part off with the rest of the sax/crock intact? (Lots of heat needed in two places at the same time to do that).
What we are trying to tell you is that the whole body tube is no longer a straight cone, plus there are probably a host of other issues with the alignment of the keywork. This is not a dent in your car, that you push out and it's done. Just removing dents next to tone holes when there's not a bend in the body is delicate work.

It's your instrument but I strongly recommend you pay someone qualified to fix this, else you risk buggering it up and making the horn useless.

If you want to invest a couple thousand dollars in the mandrels, dent raising tools, key swagers, etc., etc., etc., that a professional has at their disposal, then practice on a couple dozen junk horns that get unrepairably damaged due to inadequate experience, prior to making this repair, go ahead. If, on the other hand, you just want the thing to play right again, go to someone who has the correct tools and - more important - the experience.

If you look at my posts, you will see that I tend to support people being self-sufficient where possible and I usually oppose the idea that you should "take it to a pro" for every little adjustment. This kind of thing is not that kind of situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hello, I get the message 🙂
I only have about 450 USD invested in it so far. Considering the (low) value of a Bundy/Buescher/Selmer Signet low-A in straight condition I am not sure taking it to a technician here in Sweden is worth it.
I do appreciate your advice though and I have certainly learned to respect the difficulty in repairing this dent.
I have looked at 'straightening' videos on YouTube and seen the way it's done and the tools used. But that would probably be a later step after the dent has been removed.
My hope was that by taking the dent out the body would straighten out a bit in the process.
An alternative could be to use a body from one of the two spare part lowB Bundies I have from before as these seem to be identical. Bad thing is that the bell key stack/rods are totally different and welded on the body. So even if most of the body is the same between the horns lots of welding and precision work is required.
Still if anyone would point me in the direction of a video explaining how a dent of this sort is usually removed, or explain in words I would be very happy 🙂
 

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Bell iron and or dent balls, sounds like you have some experience with disassembly and soldering but I agree with assessment of others that other problems exist. My advise, if you have that much trepidation, I agree go to a pro. either way, good luck
 

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Is the first photo, is the metal pushed in at the base of the tone hole that is facing us (hence making the tone hole non-level)?
If so, you may be able to push it out with a ball - of suitable size(s) - through the opposing tone hole. (Expensive tooling - do you have it?) It's tricky because tone holes should be level to within about 0.001mm (0.0004") or better. Expensive tone hole levelling tools may be needed.

You don't heat the metal. It would have to be red hot to soften it, and then all manner of things would fall off the sax. They are soft-soldered onto the body, not welded, unless this is a very rare exception.
However realise that the dented area is already more work-hardened than the surrounding area, and will somewhat reluctant to return to where it should be without distorting the surrounding area.
If you push metal too far you can push it back, but that is often more tricky, and you would need a mandrel inside the body. That means unsoldering the body-bow junction. Is that within your capabilities?

Where the post is pushed into the body: It is fairly unlikely you will get that out without first detaching the post. (Are you confident with that, and re-attaching it?)
There is a tool - https://www.ferreestoolsinc.com/products/n85_sax_body_dent_remover?variant=1166547164 - that "hugs" the post and pulls it out by impact, but there is a reasonable chance the base will become distorted or pull right off the body. But nevertheless worth a try. If the body metal is soft it just might work. Do you have that tool hanging around? (That tool, using the "J"-shaped end, could even lift the side of a pushed in tone hole, if the tone hole is large enough. To do that needs great care!)

For so many jobs like this, there is not a set-in-stone way to do it. l You use the equipment you have in order to try this, and if it is not progressing, try that, and if that is not working, try the other, and if all that fails, unsolder the body-bow junction to use tools that will work. (Do you have a robust set of dent rods and balls, and maybe a bari sax mandrel?) Of course you have to have the experience to stop anything that is not progressing before it does further damage! And if you try to work with force or impact through a tone hole with any tool, There is a good chance you will distort/damage that tone hole you are working through.

Nobody here with any clues can advise you to just go ahead using a makeshift DIY method because There are devils around every corner with this sort of work, especially with the complications of it being a bari.

Furthermore, I agree with others here that there is very likely to be a heap of other alignment/adjustment on the sax that has been thrown out by the impact that this sax has had. A bari is a very flimsy thing, but it still needs accurate linkages and alignment of pads with keys/tone holes to play well.
 
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