[hdude]

Got a MexiConn is pretty good cosmetic condition to learn to re-pad and adjust a saxophone. Having my share of fun . I am trying to float the pads on the tone holes with only gravity pressure as my starting point. No matter what I do, I still see some light leaking here or there. Smallest test strip I have are about .1mm and most leaks seem to be about that much of a gap. A bit of pressure will close the gap all around. The tone holes are now somewhat level, I did some sanding; no rotary disks - just make shift hand sanding disks. Originally many of the holes had high sides which were usually running parallel with the stack tubes. Leaks are in front or rear and I think I pushed and pull as much as practical. I am installing softpads from MusicMedic and for the most part they fit loose in the cups. even though I measured the cups for the order. I had only one that was way to small and reordered. I ordered the thick (.185/4.5+mm) based on what size I pulled out, but have reorder some thinner (.165/4.1mm) ones because the back of the stack pads on some holes hit 1st, although not on most of them.

 

[saxoclese]

The answer to that question depends upon the condition and quality of the instrument as well as the "level" of work you are trying to achieve.

On the Mexi Conns I have worked on, the key fitting has been quite loose. This factor uncorrected makes precision pad installation difficult as do tone holes that are not perfectly flat. In the context described using "soft feel" pads I don't think you are going to get much closer than what you describe. A tip I learned is to always fit pads with the spring attached since that changes the "orientation" of the key, especially with loose key work. You simply use a "light touch" instead of gravity to close the pad.

You can bring small localized areas around the pad circumference down to close small gaps using a needle tool IF you use sufficient shellac to cover the entire back of the pad, and you develop a feel for how much to heat the key cup to bring the shellac to its "plastic" state. If after "floating" the pad as much as possible the back of the pad is still "light" you can lower the back of the key cup slightly by holding an oak dowel against the "spine" and giving it a sharp tap or two with a plastic mallet. If the front of the pad is still light, you can bring the front of the key cup down a bit by inserting a wooden craft stick (tongue depressor) between the back of the resonator and the tone hole and carefully pressing down on the front of the key cup.

 

[JayeLID]

FWIW MM 'soft feel' pads aren't really 'soft' whatsoever. They are a straight-up medium-firm pad. Not saying they are a 'bad' choice for as first-time try, just saying when people suggest a 'softer' pad because they are more 'forgiving' or such (and this position has its supporters and detractors) they aren't referring to a MM Soft Feel, really (I know, the moniker is confusing).

Also, it is pretty typical of MM pads to arrive with some size discrepancies....notsomuch in they sent you the 'wrong' size (i.e. you ordered a 25.0 and you got a 24.5) but rather that their +/- can be a bit loosey-goosey and irregular sometimes (i.e. you ordered a 25.0 and what the pad ACTUALLY IS is 24.82 or 25.15 something like this). As long as they are not crazily small, you should be alright.

You feel you have leveled the pads to the best your DIY apparatus can do (remember to finish-sand the edges as well, of course).....and check for key play per Saxoclese's comment above and there isn't anything dramatically bad (if there is you really need to have the key(s) swedged (or start tapping some posts this way and that...or both) ...or they will always be problematic

So, back again to it....if you feel:

1) the holes are 'reasonably' level for your first-time endeavor (there are various ways to check this - a half-decent neanderthalic method is to sharpie-marker the edge then hit it lightly with your makeshift tonehole file, and see if all the sharpie disappears)

2) there's adequate shellac beneath the pads that the shellac is 'floating' the entire pad (when you remove the pad is the entire back of the pad covered in shellac or are there uncovered/dry areas ?) - also what does the shellac 'footprint' in the keycup look like ? (is the shellac pooled in the center of the cup but at the edges there seems to be none, as if the back edges of the pad are simply resting on the metal with no shellac in between ?)

3) the key play is more or less negligible,

4) you are using light finger pressure to close the key & you have the springs engaged when you are heating the keycup.....

...yet you can still find leaks here and there.....

Go to shimming, would be my suggestion.


(BTW...have the screws arrived yet ? If not they should be there w/i the next day......)

 

[saxoclese]

FWIW MM 'soft feel' pads aren't really 'soft' whatsoever. They are a straight-up medium-firm pad. Not saying they are a 'bad' choice for as first-time try, just saying when people suggest a 'softer' pad because they are more 'forgiving' or such (and this position has its supporters and detractors) they aren't referring to a MM Soft Feel, really (I know, the moniker is confusing).

The "semantics" can mean different things to different people. This is how Curt Altarac describes his "soft feel" pads: I would be curious to know who sells pads that are softer than Music Medic's "soft feel" pads as I have not come across any, probably because I work mostly with "firm" pads and haven't looked for soft ones.

SoftFeel Pads
These pads are very forgiving and easy to install, but maintain the superior quality standards of all MusicMedic.com woodwind pads. Our Soft Feel pads are made from the same high quality materials as the Standard Tan pads but they contain medium soft woven felt instead of firm woven felt. The result is a superior quality saxophone pad with a softer feel than that of our Standard Feel pads. Technicians looking for a softer pad for the closed keys such as Low Eb, Low C#, G#, etc. now have an option that doesn't require putting a different color or thickness on the horn. The Soft Feel pads will also take an impression more easily for those situations where tone hole leveling is not an option.

Pisoni entry level "My Pads" are just described as having "regular felt". The "Pro Pads" that are a step up are described as having "special treated woven felt, medium consistency", and the "high end" (more expensive) pads are described as having "special treated woven felt, medium-hard consistency"

The "regular"pads Kraus sells are described as having "medium firm felt", and the Lucien Deluxe Pads are described as having "a fine quality firm woven felt". He also sells his own special order Pisoni Pro Pads with a darker brown leather that I like a lot, but on those he doesn't mention the firmness of the felt. I find them to be comparable to the Chocolate Roos from Music Medic.

J.L. Smith describes his pads this way: "352-353 Series: Our Best Selling well made and consistent Valentino saxophone pad is made of woven felt with European leather. The felt has a little forgiveness allowing you to use them for everyday work on instruments with imperfect key fitting and tone holes, "350 Series: Beautifully crafted of the finest materials, our 350 Valentino pads feature a firm woven felt, and "300 Series: Lucien Deluxe sax pads feature a flat top, firm woven felt".

Ferree's pads are described as having either "imported felt" or "domestic felt". No information about the firmness is given.

All Of the pads sold by Allied Supply are made by Pisoni. The only description on the lower priced pads is that they have "woven felt". The more expensive 207PD Premium Deluxe pads are described as having "woven felt that is 75% firmer than our standard pads", and "excellent hard felt".

 

[hdude]

Having a Mexiconn in relatively lightly used condition does confirm issues with the build quality. Pads were installed with very little shellac/glue. A couple of keys were misaligned, now straightened. Tone holes unlevel, high along with the curvature of the tubes, all but one now fairly flattened. No apparent rod wear requiring swedging but one post needed a tap to eliminate lateral play, and now that rod end needs a bit of reaming to stop it binding on the pivot screw when fully inserted. There were major leaks before I started. I’m using shims and for some holes thicker pads are better fitting and for others, the thinner ones. (So now I have my second follow-up pad reorder)

I do have a question about how Matt Stohrer applies shellac to the back of pads as easily as he does in his video – for me, the shellac cools so fast, it take multiple heat, smear and then flattening on an anvil. I melt a thin layer of flake shellac in the cup, let cool enough to put back on the sax, then re-heat and try to float. The pads I’ve pulled back out show the shellac fairly well distributed. I have minimal shellac oozing up the sides of the mostly loose fitting pads. Only one pad was crazy small. I am getting a full covering of shellac between the pads and cups and any shims used. I’m still working on getting the shellac to the plastic stage and making final adjustments pushing, pulling and trying to sit as flat as possible when cooled. I’ll keep on playing, I’m just finding it difficult to get perfect.

I hope I understand Saxoclese and JayLID correctly, if a light touch and/or springing will “seal” the light leaks that I see when just using gravity, I should be OK, at least to continue on.

 

[saxoclese]

It takes practice to get the timing and coordination to go from the flame to the pad and back with the shellac stick. I find the Blazer Es-1000 butane torch ideal for this task. A technique that works well for me it to first quickly apply a ring of shellac around the outer edge of the pad and flatten that on a bench anvil, and then quickly fill in the remainder of the surface. On large pads if the shellac begins to harden I flatten what has been applied up to that point.

 

[hdude]

You mean the pad shellac shouldn't look like what was originally installed? [/snark]

 

[JayeLID]

LOL, in 90% of cases, yes.

Now mind you, folks always have a blast strafing the ol' MexiConns.....BUT...I will tell you this, I have just completed repadding a contemporary Borgani....and when I took out the original pads.....the factory job looked no better than your pics.

I can say the same about factory pad jobs of most modern makes, actually....