[luispa]

Hi SOTW fellows,
I'm working in a new project which goal is to go beyond of what is currently called "customization". I developed a software which "calculates" and creates a mouthpiece (3D solid) based less than 30 parameters (many of them are boolean). This software creates a wide range of mouthpiece styles, from Meyer to Guardala style chambers.

I also developed a web interface which allows to "draw" the chamber shape, you can also use one of the more than 200 templates as a starting point. Available tip openings range goes from 1.0mm (0.039) to 4.0mm (0.157) with 0.1mm steps and facing lengths range goes from 10mm to 35mm with 1.0mm steps. The web application also offers automatic facing length calculation based on tip opening and 4 facing length options (short, medium, long, long+). This application allows the user to save and open files with his/her designs. Based on the user design this application generates the input parameters for the solid generating software.

This is an example of a design in the web interface:

And this is a cut of the mouthpiece generated from that design:

This is how it looks if comparing them:

This is another example with a different chamber style:

Mouthpiece cut:

Comparison:

I originally developed this software for offering fully customized CNC machined mouthpieces. But later I found 3D printing is also a reliable alternative so begun to consider to sell the .STL file in the highest resolution available (0.01mm) instead the mouthpiece itself and to give the customer a detailed specification about the resolution, materials and precautions should be considered by the 3D printing service provider or even to recommend a reliable provider in the customer area for reducing shipping time and cost. Or even to deal with the 3d printing provider for a small extra fee.

I already printed a couple of prototypes, this is one of them:

And this is how it looks:
View attachment 268270

And this is how it sounds:

Would you consider to purchase a STL file or an already printed mouthpiece? How much would you pay for that?

 

[MojoBari]

This is very impressive!

 

[lesacks]

Brilliant engineering!

An economist would probably think that the market price point for non-hand finished / non-begginer MPs is pretty well set (just go through Amazon or the big box music store web listings) but you could add a dividend for value add* like customisation of design etc.
For .STL files:
- be aware of design IP pirating!
- or ... You sell one file to someone who works in a place with a 3D printer and they use "working late" time to churn out as many pieces as they can flog on eBay - to no extra value to you.
- Also, giving an amateur the files you loose any control of QC - and they could skrew-up and blame the design.
- But maybe there's a B2B business model? Selling licences...

* There are some left-field ideas you could think of to increase Value Add and uniqueness. From SOTW posts, even:
- customise shank length / diameter to match odd-ball horns?
- mix and match; baritone rails/tip but tenor shank? Etc
- Personalised engraving? "Your bands name on the MP"

 

[StuartSax]

Respectfully, I would be reluctant to let my original design files out. It seems too easy for someone to market them on their own, perhaps even using your name if not trademarked.

I had a similar concern for pirating when I was doing MidiOpera. I let a few scores out to keep interest in the work. Most were MP3 recordings bounced from my software.

Good luck.

 

[luispa]

This is very impressive!

Thank you very much for your words! I'm a big fan of you and your work, so this is more than relevant.

 

[liggy]

What a cool idea. I know I’d order a few pieces with elements in mind of what would constitute my ideal piece for given situations.
Good luck on the project!

 

[luispa]

Brilliant engineering!

Thank you for your words, I really appreciate that.

An economist would probably think that the market price point for non-hand finished / non-begginer MPs is pretty well set (just go through Amazon or the big box music store web listings) but you could add a dividend for value add* like customisation of design etc.
For .STL files:
- be aware of design IP pirating!
- or ... You sell one file to someone who works in a place with a 3D printer and they use "working late" time to churn out as many pieces as they can flog on eBay - to no extra value to you.
- Also, giving an amateur the files you loose any control of QC - and they could skrew-up and blame the design.
- But maybe there's a B2B business model? Selling licences...

I'm still making definitions about the business model and I'm considering these alternatives:

• To sell the mouthpiece already printed by one or more providers carefully selected and controlled by me. The mouthpiece would be printed in Argentina and after all QC instances it would be shipped worldwide. The customer never have access to the STL file. In this case price would be around what you suggested: market price point for non hand finished mouthpieces with a plus for customization. The pros: I have the total control over the product during the entire process including final QC, bigger profit per piece. The cons: Shipping costs could be considerable, requires to design and produce packaging material, lot of people prefers to buy locally.

• To sell the mouthpiece already printed by a provider which is in the customer area for avoiding custom taxes and reducing shipping costs/time. For this alternative I should make a list of reliable providers worldwide and make non disclosure and license agreements for keeping sure the files will be used only once. In this case I guess the price could be the result of design price + 3d printing cost + fee for dealing with the printing service provider. The pros: lower price (the customer knows exactly the price of each concept), scalability, access to a bigger market, still a considerable control over the STL files. The cons: I should trust in providers reliability without knowing them, despite providing instructions about specs and controls I'd be unable to do the final QC but I still would be responsible for that (customers could blame me for quality issues), despite the agreements there's still a risk of files disclosing or license violations. To make a list of providers worldwide could be a huge work.

• To sell only the file and to give all the needed information for printing the mouthpiece with a "Personal use only" license agreement. Every file has a unique serial number which is associated with the customer who purchased it, this would make a bit more difficult to sell printed models or to distribute the file on the internet. The pros: Even bigger target, 3D printing decisions are make by the customer (I'd no responsible for printing quality issues), probably more sales volume. The cons: The piracy risk would exist despite the serial engraving (it's relatively easy to work and modify STL files), less profit per sale, it's hard to know how many potential customers would deal with printing service providers instead having the product already printed.

• To sell only the file and to give all the needed information for printing the mouthpiece. In this case I'd only sell a service which consists in translate the design the customer created in the web application into a STL file. The customer is the design owner and can do what he/she wants with the file. The pros: Price would be slightly higher than in the previous option, as I'm not the design owner I wouldn't care about piracy issues, as in the previous option I'd not involved in the printing process. The cons: A higher price tag could be a deal breaker, this option could be more interesting for mouthpiece makers/designers than final customers which reduces the market target.

* There are some left-field ideas you could think of to increase Value Add and uniqueness. From SOTW posts, even:
- customise shank length / diameter to match odd-ball horns?
- mix and match; baritone rails/tip but tenor shank? Etc
- Personalised engraving? "Your bands name on the MP"

All of that can be done by the solid creating software, also there's 3 window size options. I would be great to include all these options in the web interface.

Thank you very much for your comments and ideas.

 

[luispa]

Respectfully, I would be reluctant to let my original design files out. It seems too easy for someone to market them on their own, perhaps even using your name if not trademarked.

I had a similar concern for pirating when I was doing MidiOpera. I let a few scores out to keep interest in the work. Most were MP3 recordings bounced from my software.

Good luck.

Thank you for your words! Piracy is a concern, I agree with that. So I'm still considering different alternatives to deal with it.

 

[luispa]

What a cool idea. I know I'd order a few pieces with elements in mind of what would constitute my ideal piece for given situations.
Good luck on the project!

Thank you very much!

 

[14470]

Great work! I would never sell the STL file unless you wanted to get out of the business altogether. In addition to piracy, you would be faced with customers using poor printing and/or finishing techniques and have to deal with potential criticism that the STL files might harbor flaws. It is easy to 3D print but altogether a different matter to print to high standards. If you don't want to deal with long distance transactions, I would consider it much more advantageous to make partnerships in the US, Europe and Asia and have the printing done per license. I am not well versed in the legal matters that this would entail, but it does not appear to represent an uncommon business model.

 

[lesacks]

Cool. All the good luck to your enterprise!

 

[luispa]

If you don't want to deal with long distance transactions, I would consider it much more advantageous to make partnerships in the US, Europe and Asia and have the printing done per license. I am not well versed in the legal matters that this would entail, but it does not appear to represent an uncommon business model.

That seems to be the way to go. Thank you very much for your comments!

 

[luispa]

Cool. All the good luck to your enterprise!

Thank you very much!

 

[meven ASC]

Wow, that's very impressive!

Definitely don't sell the STL files. Work with reputable printing partners around the world under a tight subcontract agreement and control the sales yourself.

 

[Hassles]

To Be Honest = IF you've gone to this much trouble print / sell / freight them yourself.

 

[luispa]

Work with reputable printing partners around the world under a tight subcontract agreement and control the sales yourself.

That would be great! At this time I'm still working on the printing parameters, I should create specifications / instructions for ensuring these partners will get the same product.

 

[luispa]

After doing some search I found a thread about SYOS mouthpieces on which a couple fellows complain about a "Not so flat tables" those mouthpieces. My concern is about how difficult could be to get reliable 3D printed mouthpieces if an established company which sells its product at about €250 is unable to offer flat table mouthpieces. Also, it makes difficult to offer that kind of product without a strict QC. I guess the CNC has more than an edge over 3D printing for mouthpieces making. Initially, I developed the software with CNC in mind, the way the solid is created is compatible with the machining steps so I will consider CNC again. I changed the poll for including this option.

 

[lesacks]

And yet SYOS still seem to be a going concern and there are good reviews here... as well as negative (not to mention complaints of quality consistency for mainstream MPs brands).
Either way, if you sell MPs, you are responsible for the Quality. Same as most products. If you don't have the experience either you have to develop it ($¥€) yourself or collaborate / partner with someone who does...

 

[meven ASC]

After doing some search I found a thread about SYOS mouthpieces on which a couple fellows complain about a "Not so flat tables" those mouthpieces. My concern is about how difficult could be to get reliable 3D printed mouthpieces if an established company which sells its product at about €250 is unable to offer flat table mouthpieces. Also, it makes difficult to offer that kind of product without a strict QC. I guess the CNC has more than an edge over 3D printing for mouthpieces making. Initially, I developed the software with CNC in mind, the way the solid is created is compatible with the machining steps so I will consider CNC again. I changed the poll for including this option.

If you are ready to go with CNC instead of 3D printing then go for it. Your cost will be much higher and you will have to source the base material but you will end up with a far superior product. On the other hand your margin will also be much lower. It really depends on what your objectives are with this project.

 

[Sigmund451]

I think you are going to find that one off items on a cnc are prohibitively expensive. Different designs will take different machine setups $$$

As for 3d, there is good reason those makers at the top of the heap do not use it.