[2Tonic]

I am considering purchasing a horn and the price comes with a bit of a premium. The reason for the premium price is several-fold. The horn is owned by a known professional who hand-selected this horn and later had the manufacturer do considerable work on it to make certain it was well-regulated. It also comes with a second neck that was never released to the public. The horn plays wonderfully, if price were not an issue I would trade this horn for mine in a second.

So my question to the forum is "How much of a premium would you pay for something because it was diligently tuned/regulated, includes a rare neck, and was owned by a known performer?"

Thanks for any discussion or replies!

 

[Finnerski]

Depends on what the instrument is and who the known performer was. You won't get a general answer, need more details. FWIW, Plas Johnson had his Yanagisawa baritone up for sale on e-bay for a long time, and the price was right in line with what Joe Average would ask.

 

[dogster]

If it plays well and you love it then get it unless it really marked up too high

 

[69193]

Like many things in life..I would say that "it depends." It sounds like this is something that you REALLY want. How are you set financially? I don't mean "what is your budget?" because buying a horn like this would require throwing logic and reason out the door. Can you afford to throw a large amount of money at an item whose value is mainly determined by its history...not its make/model? If so...go for it.

Keep in mind that if you ever have to sell it...what might be a $10k horn to you (because of who played it) might only be a $6k horn to a potential buyer, because they don't care about the horns history.


Personally...I wouldn't pay the premium. I'm not paying twice as much for one horn vs. another identical horn just because 'xxxx' 'xxxx' played it.

 

[MyMartinTenor]

"How much of a premium would you pay for something because it was diligently tuned/regulated,

This has substantial value to me. It costs a good amount to get a horn fixed up that's fallen into disrepair. Diligent maintenance keeps it sooooo much easier to keep in repair and keep in good shape.

includes a rare neck,

Depends on how the "rare" neck plays. I'm not a collector, so I don't care about whether its "rare." Does it play well? Add something interesting and different and useful? Then it may be worth some money. Just because its "rare" -- nah.... unless I can sell it separately to a collector.....

and was owned by a known performer?"

Not a big deal for me, really.

 

[VintageSaxGuy]

"How much of a premium would you pay for something because it was diligently tuned/regulated, includes a rare neck, and was owned by a known performer?"

Well, the first can be accomplished by a competent tech. The argument could be made that only a boutique type shop could offer the same level of work...but you're still looking at a handful of shops (at least).

Unless the rare neck plays significantly better than a stock neck, then you're looking at something that has value because it is collectible (although 'significantly better' doesn't necessarily mean much either since it's an opinion). But just because it's collectible doesn't necessarily mean it's worth far more than a stock neck (if it's solid silver...you would be looking at a higher scrap value though).

And when it comes to who owned it, you're again looking at an attribute that makes the horn appealing to someone who collects. Perhaps the provenance makes it worth more, but it doesn't mean it's a better sax.

Bottom line, if you find significant value in the provenance and the unusual neck...and it's worth it to you based on that, there's nothing wrong with that (even if it's more expensive than the exact same model without the frills/history).

But if you're looking at it from a purely functional standpoint, a rare neck and all the provenance in the world doesn't mean squat if it doesn't play circles around any other sax you've tried.

 

[Grumps]

I wouldn't pay an additional price for a horn because of its prior owner. If it's the named player that's selling it, they're doing so for a reason...

 

[Dr G]

So my question to the forum is "How much of a premium would you pay for something because it was diligently tuned/regulated, includes a rare neck, and was owned by a known performer?"

I'd only be paying for a horn in good playing condition - if anything less, it would sell for less.

I'd only play one neck so it doesn't matter if there is an extra neck that doesn't play as well.

If the pro sold it, it is no longer their favored horn. Further, it may have considerably more wear than a horn of similar vintage played by an "amateur".

 

[Thomas]

I wouldn't pay an additional price for a horn because of its prior owner. .

me neither,not even if it belonged to JC....and I don't mean John Coltrane.

 

[spike421]

I wouldn't pay an additional price for a horn because of its prior owner. If it's the named player that's selling it, they're doing so for a reason...

I agree. The horn's value is based on make, model, vintage and condition. The neck may add value, the tweeking is moot once it's in your hands and been used for a while.

Plas Johnson had his Yanagisawa baritone up for sale on e-bay for a long time, and the price was right in line with what Joe Average would ask.

Plas Johnson's Yani B990 has been on Ebay for almost a year, now reduced to $5995.00, and has not sold. IMO this is a bit much for a used 990, which is probably the reason it hasn't sold. The seller/consignee (An LA dealer) constantly makes reference to it's ownership but no one has bitten.This might give a clue as to the added value based on prior ownership.

 

[Stephen Howard]

The horn is owned by a known professional who hand-selected this horn.

This will mean the horn is of a certain standard. It's good practice for a beginner to take an experienced player along to a shop to try out and help them select 'the best of a bunch' - but a more advanced player might not like the preferences of another experienced player.

and later had the manufacturer do considerable work on it to make certain it was well-regulated.

It shouldn't have taken considerable work to regulate the horn, and simply having it done once is no indication that it's still in that state.
If the horn was tweaked acoustically for the original owner it might not suit the way you play it.
Ongoing maintenance is more worth having, and it's not clear whether that was carried out after the initial setup.

It also comes with a second neck that was never released to the public.

Maybe it wasn't up to par? Either way, it's only any good if it works for you.

The horn plays wonderfully, if price were not an issue I would trade this horn for mine in a second.

This is about the only factor you can take to the bank as a player.

If I liked an expensive celebrity-owned horn that much, I'd look out for other examples of the same horn that don't have that premium on the price.
Then again, if I owned a tenor previously owned by, say, Tubby Hayes - I might just be more inclined to work harder at doing it justice...so it depends on how much of a hero the previous owner is to you.

Regards,

 

[kwgrinnell]

The key point is the set up. My experience from purchasing numerous instruments, the set up is well worth the time and price paid. I have ugly horns that play like a dream and a "Designer" horn that spent time in the shop to get up to my standards.

K
44 yrs of happy sax

 

[MartinMusicMan]

How do you feel when you play the horn? Is that worth the premium price? Can you get the same feeling from another horn without the premium?

 

[hgiles]

I wouldn't play a premium for a horn just because someone famous owned it. The market suggests most others wouldn't either. It may be worth relative retail if it plays exceptionally well.

Kevin Whalum was selling a horn not long ago and he didnt get anything special for it, IIRC. Granted Kevin isn't Kirk, but I would bet he had some influence...

 

[JL]

I'm willing to pay a premium (as opposed to an 'e-bay deal') for a horn that is in top playing condition and when I can get a short trial period to test out the horn, both at home and, hopefully, on a gig or two. I don't care at all who owned the horn previously, assuming they didn't beat the horn to hell, and I wouldn't pay a dime extra just because someone famous owned it.

 

[dogster]

:faceinpalm:

I'm willing to pay a premium (as opposed to an 'e-bay deal') for a horn that is in top playing condition and when I can get a short trial period to test out the horn, both at home and, hopefully, on a gig or two. I don't care at all who owned the horn previously, assuming they didn't beat the horn to hell, and I wouldn't pay a dime extra just because someone famous owned it.

Unles it was Kenny G of course ! lol

 

[bandmommy]

I 'hand selected' my horns. I am meticulous when it comes to their care and regulation.
I'm 'well known' here on SOTW.
Would you pay a premium to own one of mine? I don't think so!

It's a horn that's been well taken care of, and I couldn't care less who owned it. The fact that someone somewhat famous played it before I did sure as hell won't make me a better player. All you get is 'bragging rights' and probably no one but you will care.
Fair market value is as high as I would go.

 

[Atonal]

How much of a premium would you pay for something because it was

diligently tuned/regulated, This is worth something, at least.

includes a rare neck, Big Deal

and was owned by a known performer?" Who Cares?!

I always laugh when I see these ebay sellers advertising horns or mouthpieces that were owned by famous players, as if somehow that should increase the value of the horn or mouthpiece. I guess some people value the collect-ability, but I could care less. How it plays is all that matters to me!

 

[Harvey]

Yeah, mouthpieces too. So and so played on these so they must now command a premium! Or model X has the same refaced-from-stock properties that we did for that guy whose famous. At least with the horns themselves, no two makers are radically ergonomically different from the rest.

Meh, I'm wit the rest. You didn't say anything about the horn playing like nothing you ever touched before, so... it's just another horn.

Harv

 

[2Tonic]

Thank you for all the comments and perspectives. I suppose I could better describe the neck. It could be purchased but only by special order, it is not a regularly sold item in the manufacturers portfolio of parts. I have the horn on loan right now but did not get the standard neck ( I will get it if I buy the horn), so a direct comparison between this and the standard neck simply isn't going to happen, at least not right now.

The horn is an amazing condition and plays better in my hands than my current horn, a SA 80 Series II. I notice how effortless the keywork seems and the upper register is so clear and in tune. At least to my ears, there is a distinct difference as compared to my current horn. As I said, if money were not a concern I would exchange this horn for mine immediately.

In the end, the difference between another model of this horn with 2 necks could be had for a few dollars less. However, this setup is proven, plays well for me and would be a great horn to have. I'm just looking at the fact that a similar setup that has not had the setup nor had the second neck carefully matched to it would cost about $400-500 less. That's somewhat of a rough estimate because I simply don't know what the "special" second neck would cost. I'm not certain how much to ascribe to the setup, maintenance (the horn is immaculate and still in great tune!), and second neck. I really don't put a lot of value on the provenance or history of ownership.

Thanks again for all of your input, it's much appreciated!