[Pete Thomas]

Although I like to keep a open mind (notwithstanding the science) on whether finish, material, ligatures, straphooks, weights on the neck, thumbrests and even P-liggingaffect the sound of a saxophone, I have to say one thing:

I am so glad I can't actually tell the difference most of the time.

Whether this is a fault of my ears, my brain or that there isn't actually any difference, I have to admit that most of the time I really don't know. I do respect what people say when I hear them talking about this or that ligature sounding better etc., and like to try things out (critically) for myself.

And that makes me happy.

Yes, I mess around with different mouthpiece/saxophone and sometimes reed combinations in an ongoing effort to improve my sound. Although sometimes I think it improves the sound, but it just changes it. Or I think it has.

The thing is, I don't think I could cope if I had to add extra things like ligatures and straphooks into the equation. I'd never ever get much practise done as I'd be seeing if ligature B with straphook D and mouthpiece C was better than ligature F with mouthpiece B and straphook A. AND SO ON.

How do you people do it? I mean if you have to worry about all those different possibilities? Or do you wish your choices were simpler, as it is for people like me?

I've done many soundtests, but rarely felt or heard any difference. The latest one I was going to post on the straphook thread, but that is now closed, but I did compare a plastic hook and a metal one (soundfiles here if anyone is interested)

Please note: I don't want to debate the differences (or not) in this thread (so it might be very short! ) there are plenty of those still open, I just wondered how people cope with all those different possibilities, if they are something that affect you?

 

[TMadness1013]

Good question here, Pete. I have found that while a change in mouthpiece and/or reed strength can make a fairly noticeable difference in my sound, at this point I still sound like "me". Like most here, I'd rather invest my time into exploring new harmonic possibilities in my improvisation, refine my technique, improve consistency with sight-reading, etc.

I think those who tend to get caught up in the newest fancy ligature or other holy grail may be at a point in their playing where they're still not satisifed with their core sound. I realize that all saxophonists are never entirely satisfied but some may look to equipment to aid them where as others work on overtones, long tones, etc. Most of us take both avenues.

Whenever I'm tempted to try out something new (some neck straps reviewed in that latest thread have got me curious!). I try to shift my focus to things I am positive will improve me as a player. With evidence from the 5 most useless things thread, we've all invested money in equipment that didn't make us the next Chris Potter.

 

[milandro]

My experience in the saxophone world as a player is not huge. I am a modest amateur. Unlike most amateurs though I have had the chance to try many horns, buy them, sell them, and to try a fair bit of equipment.........horns, mouthpiece, reeds, couple of necks, etcetera.
I have found out about differences and my preferences. SOTW has been instrumental (!) to inform me and to give me information and ideas. I made experiences and came to conclusions which lead to make my own choices. By and large I think that the common knowledge of differences coming from: embouchure, reeds, necks, saxophones are the only variables that are sure , for me, anywhere else leaves me pretty much cold. Notoriously I don't think that other implements have anything to do with sound and I am happy with that too. It is already difficult to find your way this way, let alone if we start believing that a magnet or a gem can make us sound better.
I just wonder how come nobody comes across things that make you sound worse. I am off to at least one hour practice now. That is guaranteed of having a positive effect.

 

[dogbert]

Every time I start messing around with only 2 or 3 different mouthpieces (let alone reeds and ligs), I usually only determine that every piece has it's own combination of strenghts and weaknesses, so I usually only see once more that there is no holy grail. Although I hear subtle differences between different ligatures (I use the one the "feels" best to me), taking reeds and ligs into the equation would obviously mess everything up (for me).

Besides that, this messing around takes serious amounts from my practice time so that I usually put it all aside after one or two days. Nevertheless I enjoy checking a new piece or reed once in a while.

 

[Raphyel]

I don't cope.....I just play for myself. I dont really do the soul searching as many of the "Hard Core" musicians do. I like my sound as it currently is.

 

[saxguy007]

Hi Pete-

I think as with other things in life, that MODERATION is CRUCIAL. I believe in two key principles-

1) Most of the variance in what a player's saxophone tone sounds like (let's say 70%) is attributable to that player's embouchure and breath control, etc. This compresses gear-based differences (i.e. we sound like what we sound like), and the imperfections in recording capture further IMO compresses tone differences.

2) Gear makes a significant contribution to the remaining 30%. A reasonably-skilled player will sound different with a Dukoff 10 than a Selmer C*

Therefore, I do believe that making changes in gear can result in a significant improvement in sound- especially if a player has only ever really played one or two horns or pieces. However, after a handful of improvements, the bar keeps getting raised, as the gear reaches an asymptote of quality. Further "improvements" are really modest.

Moderation comes in when a player has tried several saxes, necks, and mouthpieces- enough to have likely played on very nice stuff. By that point, better to just practice and nose around every once in a while for something new.

 

[Enviroguy]

I think it was medieval poet, Ped Xing that once said, "To the inquisitive, tinkering is both rapture and folly."

I believe that periodic experimentation with gear is necessary to find the right tools to make the sound we want. But when it starts taking the place of practice, then it's too much. I try to measure everyone and everything by the "fruit it produces". And for music, everything must ultimate help produce a better performance or it's useless. When I'm thinking about a new gizmo, I try to imagine if it actually mean anything when I'm out in front of the crowd. And often the answer is no. Ironically, the best "gear" I've found that passes this test in the last year has all been software. Better scores and better backing tracks have greatly enhanced my performances.

 

[DukeCity]

One way that I cope is to remind myself that after all of the other variables are considered (horn, neck, mouthpiece, ligature and all of there variations), my saxophone won't make any sound until I strap a rotting piece of wood to it.* That reed is in a state of decay, and it will be different after playing it for an hour, and it will be different tomorrow, and it is different from all of the other reeds in the box/case. The differences from reed to reed, from day to day are great enough that I think they impact the feel of my whole set up as much (or more) than subtle changes in other equipment.

So I try to keep my horn in good repair, find a mouthpiece and neck that FEEL good (take my air the way I like, and respond in a comfortable way), and a ligature that holds the reed well and adjusts easily. After that, I deal with the day to day of reeds as they come.

*Yes, I know that technically a reed is not "wood" per se, but part of the grass family. And yes, it's not really rotting in a dramatic fashion, but the reminder to myself that it's an organic material that is decaying from the wetting, drying and playing processes helps me to not sweat the other variables quite so much.

 

[saxphil]

I'm just glad I found the Tenney Jazzmaster 7* ( 9 months+)

I'm free from the mpc wheel, the Jazzmaster is the most flexible for me.
I can just mess with reeds and be happy.
A two screw lig does me fine.

Others mpcs I own, have either a built in eq, a shorter facing, or otherwise, sound limiting.

 

[RandyJ]

My career as a saxophonist started in the 60's, it's been and still is a wonderful career. Throughout all this time;
I don't care 'bout nothing much new or improved by marketing terms.
I don't care 'bout switchen', swapen' or tryin out different horns as they continually come out.
I don't get hung up on all the different reeds.
I don't care much about any of the add-on's, the next greatest ligature or mouthpiece or the claims of what all that stuff is supposed to do.
I have two tenor mouthpieces, one that I love is from the early 60's.

What I do more than 200 days a year is get my horn, mouthpiece and a reed and perform.

 

[madhag]

I grew up with the violin and was trained to hear and feel every little nuance. I can hear the difference in lig, mouthpiece, reed, humidity, if it's a green or black cat toy in the horn etc... but that's just what i hear and doesn't mean I have to act on it unless it's giving someone a headache.
I'm happy with my setup- one mouthpiece and one type of reed, but swap b/t ligs depending on how the horn sounds. I think if it's not constant, I'll get confused and slow down my progress as a player. I really like how my setup sounds, the rest of how my tone evolves will be from practice.

 

[patmiller]

I've been playing for 45 years but I have only owned a few horns. It's only in the last couple of years that I've had the time, inclination or money to start experimenting. I have recently changed my main horn and mouthpiece and I'm very happy. Not one of my colleagues has noticed the SLIGHTEST difference in my sound. And I'm talking good musicians with great ears. Mostly they notice whether I'm more or less enthusiastic and involved in playing. But the tone and sound? Nada. Zip. As for ligatures, materials and finishes - jus forgedaboudit!

The main differences between all of the elements of gear are located somewhere between our own ears.

My take? If something makes you think you're sounding better you probably will. If something makes you think you're sounding worse you probably will. It's your brain that determines these things.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I've been playing for 45 years but I have only owned a few horns. It's only in the last couple of years that I've had the time, inclination or money to start experimenting. I have recently changed my main horn and mouthpiece and I'm very happy. Not one of my colleagues has noticed the SLIGHTEST difference in my sound.

I think this is a sign of experience. You get to a point where you can control the sound, or rather it almost happens subconsciously so maybe it isn't actually controlling. When I switched from a MKVI to a Conn half way through a recording session, nobody noticed a change in sound. Likewise, these were good musicians, sound engineer and name producer. A few comments on how my intonation suddenly improved.

 

[AltoRuth]

I'm strictly a hobbyist, a not-very-good amateur, never destined to be much better than I am now. I've settled in on a couple of different set-ups that suit me, and I use them as the whim strikes me or the music suggests. I also garden, have for years, and I have a small, but very satisfactory flower garden. Still, when the seed catalogs arrive, or I visit a friend's garden, etc. I get the yen to try growing yet one more new plant that has taken my eye. Not that it will make my garden more beautiful---just something a little different. It's much the same for me with sax equipment---I have no illusions about finding the "magic" mpc, or reed, or lig---but sometimes "different" is just fun to try out. Soooo, if I see something interesting here in the FS section or on eBay, happen to have the $$, and the time to mess with it, I might go for it. I'm pretty well done with buying instruments, tho----I'm happy with the ones I have, and indulging the impulse to try yet another horn is too expensive! So yes, I have several mpcs, a couple of horns, a bunch of reeds---ligs don't really grab me, nor do neckstraps, swabs, etc. I will soon try to sell at least one of the horns, but unless the drawer gets too full, I'll keep the mpcs, and enjoy now and again pulling one out that I haven't tried for a while, just to see how it feels and plays.

I know it's different if you are a pro, and particularly so if you are an aspiring pro, or want to make first chair in the band, or get into music school----reading through the agonizing about equipment, about finding one's "sound", etc. etc. that goes on here makes me glad that I'm not!

Best regards, Ruth

 

[jrvinson45]

If it ain't broke; I don't fix it.

 

[JL]

Aside from the player, which of course is the most important component, the order in which I think equipment matters in terms of sound (and feel) is as follows.

Equipment that does make some difference, in order of importance:

1.Reed
2.Mouthpiece
3.Horn

Equipment/factors that make no difference:

Ligature (assuming it fits well)
Neck strap (assuming it's comfortable)
Finish/lac on horn
Material of mpc

I have also found that for the items that do make some difference (reed, mpc, horn) it's best to stick with one rather that switch around. It's fine to try out a new mpc/reed/horn, but counter-productive to keep switching back and forth between several different brands. This may not apply to everyone, but it's what I've found to be true in my case.

 

[MartinMusicMan]

SOTW has been a great resource in that it has made me aware of many things -- horns, mouthpieces, reeds, cases, straps, etc. -- that I would not have learned about on my own. SOTW gave me GAS. I've bought a Barone tenor as a backup, then various reed brands and synthetics and finally Plasticovers, got a modern Link STM NY and sold it, then a Metalite mouthpiece and Runyon with a spoiler, then a cheap Chinese soprano + a few different mouthpieces for it, then a Martin bari, and most recently a Martin alto, with Metalite mouthpieces and Plasticover reeds for all, plus Rovner and Rico ligs, and a variety of other accessories along the way. All the exploration has been fun but I guess I try out what seems interesting or useful to me at the time and ignore the stuff that seems to be irrelevant to making a decent sound on the horn. Through this process, more and more I've settled into gear that suits me and I have less and less interest in exploring more things to improve my sound. Ultimately, I know I will sound like me and changes in gear make little or no difference in sound.

 

[jrvinson45]

SOTW has been a great resource in that it has made me aware of many things -- horns, mouthpieces, reeds, cases, straps, etc. -- that I would not have learned about on my own. SOTW gave me GAS. I've bought a Barone tenor as a backup, then various reed brands and synthetics and finally Plasticovers, got a modern Link STM NY and sold it, then a Metalite mouthpiece and Runyon with a spoiler, then a cheap Chinese soprano + a few different mouthpieces for it, then a Martin bari, and most recently a Martin alto, with Metalite mouthpieces and Plasticover reeds for all, plus Rovner and Rico ligs, and a variety of other accessories along the way. All the exploration has been fun but I guess I try out what seems interesting or useful to me at the time and ignore the stuff that seems to be irrelevant to making a decent sound on the horn. Through this process, more and more I've settled into gear that suits me and I have less and less interest in exploring more things to improve my sound. Ultimately, I know I will sound like me and changes in gear make little or no difference in sound.

I can't help but notice you have a new mousepiece in your avatar, though.:mrgreen:

 

[MartinMusicMan]

I can't help but notice you have a new mousepiece in your avatar, though.:mrgreen:

 

[evan1]

If it ain't broke; I don't fix it.

+ 1. Id also like to add KISS. Keept it simple. Good mouthpeice, reeds your happy with and a simple ligature. Ive tried so many ligatures, recently, out of curiosity, and NONE of them sounded better than by 2 screw ligature. All of them cost a whole lot more !