[cashk]

I was looking in my IrealPro program trying to print out stacked chords to help me with voice leading a bit (I'm a learning improviser) and I can't seem to find a way to print that out. They've got piano chords (showing the keyboard) and guitar models, but nothing that represents the stacked chords that spells out each chord in print mode.

Does anyone have a program that allows you to type in, for example C7 and the CEGBb shows up on the staff below stacked?

I realize that it's "good for me" to write it out myself, but I'm not a pro and I have a toddler at home which makes time a real issue. Any time saving measure to get me practicing and hearing my voice leading faster, would be very beneficial.

 

[rcpayne]

You should memorize chords, that will help you more than printing out the notes. Start by memorizing dominant 7, major, and minor chords.

 

[saxoclese]

I agree that it is important to learn the spellings of chords as soon as you can. In the meantime this might help. Chord Calculator

 

[cashk]

You should memorize chords, that will help you more than printing out the notes. Start by memorizing dominant 7, major, and minor chords.

Do you do this by using cue cards? Playing them through? What method have you used?

 

[lydian]

Do you do this by using cue cards? Playing them through? What method have you used?

First, learn your major scales. Then take the number of each scale degree to build the chords. Chords in jazz are typically 1 3 5 7, plus 9 11 13 at times. For beginning improv, 1 3 5 7 is enough. Learn by playing the arpeggios in all keys. But go slowly and concentrate on one type per practice session. Eventually, you'll know all of them without thinking. Here is another good reference:
https://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/download/FREE-scale-syllabus.pdf

Flash cards could be useful, but actual playing makes the connection from your eyes/ears all the way to your fingers and closes the loop when you hear what each chord tone sounds like. Eventually, you should be able to hear any note played against a chord and identify which chord tone it is (maj 3rd, min 7th, etc.).

The most important ones for voice leading are 3 and 7. So go through a fake book, looking at the symbols, and play all the 3rds. Repeat the exercise playing all the 7ths. Repeat again, playing 3rd or 7th depending on which is closest to the previous chord. For example, in the progression C7 F7, Bb to A or E to Eb would be good voice leading. This gets you in the habit of thinking ahead and recognizing common progressions, like I7-IV7 and ii-V7-I.

 

[dtedsax]

... this might help. Chord Calculator

They also have a Scale Calculator that give you a scale for common chords. I am going to try it on my iphone.

If you are on a desktop computer you can print to PDF---- it comes out nice.

 

[rcpayne]

Do you do this by using cue cards? Playing them through? What method have you used?

I began with the Patterns for Jazz book, Coker I think wrote it. That was a long time ago. Then I started playing broken chords over the entire range of the horn. When I was driving my car I'd say the names of the notes of chords to see how quickly I could rattle them off. If at first you want to write the chords out to help you memorize there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[JL]

First, learn your major scales. Then take the number of each scale degree to build the chords. Chords in jazz are typically 1 3 5 7, plus 9 11 13 at times. For beginning improv, 1 3 5 7 is enough. Learn by playing the arpeggios in all keys. But go slowly and concentrate on one type per practice session. Eventually, you'll know all of them without thinking. Here is another good reference:
https://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/download/FREE-scale-syllabus.pdf

Flash cards could be useful, but actual playing makes the connection from your eyes/ears all the way to your fingers and closes the loop when you hear what each chord tone sounds like. Eventually, you should be able to hear any note played against a chord and identify which chord tone it is (maj 3rd, min 7th, etc.).

The most important ones for voice leading are 3 and 7. So go through a fake book, looking at the symbols, and play all the 3rds. Repeat the exercise playing all the 7ths. Repeat again, playing 3rd or 7th depending on which is closest to the previous chord. For example, in the progression C7 F7, Bb to A or E to Eb would be good voice leading. This gets you in the habit of thinking ahead and recognizing common progressions, like I7-IV7 and ii-V7-I.

+1!

And you want to reach the point where you can do this mentally, building the chords in 3rds from the root. That chord calculator is handy, but eventually you need to internalize those chords and be able to build them in your mind and of course play the arpeggios on your horn.

One important step is to memorize all 12 major scales to the point you can instantly name each scale degree in those scales (for ex, C maj scale, 1=C, 2=D, 3=E, 4=F, 5=G, 6=A, 7=B; D maj scale, 1=D, 2=E, 3= F#, etc; and be able to also do it randomly). ALL 12 maj scales. Once you can do that, it's easy to derive chords by spelling them up in 3rds from the root (ex. Cmaj7 = C E G B, C7 (dom) = C E G Bb; note the b7 in that chord. And so on). The fact is, you'll never get this stuff straight until you've memorized those 12 major scales so you have a point of reference.

 

[Miralejos]

Familiarize yourself with this page:
View attachment scan.pdf

then go through all keys in same fashion.

 

[ZootTheSim]

I'd like to print a stack of notes, preferably Benjamins.

 

[Bloo Dog]

Use the chord calculator and hand copy each chord in the key of C, then transpose every other chord based upon what you have copied onto the ledger lines. It's laborious, but it's part of the learning process. Check each transposed chord against the chord calculator, and after you have corrected each chord, play each chord on your instrument. Do it over and over until you don't have to think about it. That's laborious too, but it's part of the learning process.

There are no shortcuts.

Sorry.

 

[saxoclese]

I just checked Ireal Pro and one can purchase an add on program called "Chords and Scales" that shows the written out chord and scale that fits each chord change in the song.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I just checked Ireal Pro and one can purchase an add on program called "Chords and Scales" that shows the written out chord and scale that fits each chord change in the song.

I would avoid that like the plague. It's total garbage IMO and perpetuates the Aebersold chord/scale syllabus nonsense that helps nobody actually learn to properly improvise.

 

[BH9]

I would avoid that like the plague. It's total garbage IMO and perpetuates the Aebersold chord/scale syllabus nonsense that helps nobody actually learn to properly improvise.

I know a few pretty good improvisers who started with aebersold, so I have to disagree with that. John Goldsby for one. What's the problem with it? It helps people learn how music is constructed, how to analyze it, etc...

 

[JL]

There are no shortcuts.

So true. There are a lot of good (and some not so good) resources out there that will give you a complete list of chords, and these are well worth checking out. However, it takes more than simply memorizing a bunch of chords from flash cards or a listing. You really need to understand how a chord is built and how to do that yourself. The best resource will help teach you to derive each chord, and chord type (maj, min, dom, dim, etc), as well as chord function.

As to the 'chord scale' concept, it's an attempt at a shortcut. Maybe it works for some, but don't be confused by it because a chord is not a scale. Chords can be derived from scales, but they aren't the same thing.

p.s. I left out the most important thing: Learn the sound of each chord type. You can do this by playing them on a piano (electric keyboards can be had for a very reasonable price) and to some extent by playing the arpeggio on your horn.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I know a few pretty good improvisers who started with aebersold, so I have to disagree with that. John Goldsby for one. What's the problem with it? It helps people learn how music is constructed, how to analyze it, etc...

I've never noticed that, I thought it just tells people what scale goes with a chord... with no reference to context or functional harmony

 

[BH9]

Jamie’s method is just a starting point and no one knows that better than Jamie himself. When I attended one of his weeks back in the 90s i’m sure functional harmony ewas discussed at length. Aebersold is not a shortcut, it’s a place to start.

 

[saxoclese]

I would avoid that like the plague. It's total garbage IMO and perpetuates the Aebersold chord/scale syllabus nonsense that helps nobody actually learn to properly improvise.

This is not a new discussion by any means. My only response would be that the 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th notes in the scale (in less complex chords) are the chord tones that create the harmony, and the 2nd, 4th, and 6th are passing tones that lead to or from a chord tone. I fail to see how that presents a problem. If the argument is that players who learn which scales go with which chords only learn to improvise by just playing scales, the same argument could be made that players who just learn the chords will learn to improvise by just playing chords. Both arguments are fallacious in my view since melodies whether improvised or composed in step time consist of notes that move in combinations of both steps and intervals. Getting both arpeggios and scales under your fingers in every key is a very important part of the pedagogy of learning any instrument---even when that includes "jazz scales" and "modes".

 

[JL]

...the 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th notes in the scale (in less complex chords) are the chord tones that create the harmony, and the 2nd, 4th, and 6th are passing tones that lead to or from a chord tone.

You could also argue that when speaking of chords, the 2nd, 4th, & 6th are the 9th, 11th, & 13th extensions of the chord. It is true that those notes can be treated as passing tones, but so can chromatic (non-diatonic) notes, "properly placed." Understanding the difference between the actual chord tones and those passing tones is pretty important.

No one would argue that scales aren't important and that melodies can be created using the 'pool of notes' that make up a scale. However, it's equally important to understand the difference between a chord and a scale and the importance of chord tones when playing through a chord progression. And certainly no argument regarding getting those scales and modes under your fingers.

Hey cashk, are you still with us? Is any of this helpful toward answering your questions?

 

[nvilletele]

Oh, forget it.