Sax on the Web Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 411 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,901 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, I think I'm going to start importing horns from Taiwan but I'd like your feedback first. I've been bugging the people at the factory about some issues and I think they've straightened them out. I thought I'd get the most premium stuff and sell it considerably below what the pther guys are selling them for but I'll get anyone whatever they want.

I never thought I'd say it but I'm really surprised by the quality of them, they're amazing and I'n intrigued by the curved horns. Could some of you guys give me some feedback? Thank you very much! Phil
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
2,228 Posts
Are they a new design or one already on the market with a another brand engraved on it? Do you have pictures? How you priced them? Is the keywork solid brass? French or Americian sounding sax?

Are you going to have a contest to name the sax models? :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
495 Posts
Phil i bought a sugal soprano which i think is taiwanese and i must say
it plays really well with quite a good build quality.I know Gary has his
cynics on this site but i must say he got it right with this one. Also i've
got a gulf sopranino coming and when that arrives i'll give you my verdict
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
244 Posts
Saxland said:
Are you going to have a contest to name the sax models? :D
Y'know, whether it's cars, computers or horns I've always thought it's a cop-out to use a number for a name. "The incredible BZQ-4206 simply blows the doors off the QZB-6024!" So Phil, I hope you'll take this chance to come up with some cool, beautiful names.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,393 Posts
I think it's an excellent idea and I wish you every success Phil!

As it happens I am in the process of doing exactly the same here in Europe, also from Taiwan and also very high quality and as I certainly don't want to compete or tread on Phil's toes I thought I'd better say so straight away!

Hey Phil, maybe should pool our resources - maybe we're even talking to the same people in Taiwan. If we are then the good news is that the saxes are amazing! :D

Anyway, best of luck with your venture and PM me if you fancy a chat about it!
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
5,475 Posts
Let me save you a lot of wasted time and effort. Just work out a deal to sell Kessler's saxes out on the East coast or UK (for Rick). That way, with you guys pushing them, they'll become really popular, all the pros will use them, and in 30-40 years, they'll become the "have-to-have" vintage saxes, and mine will be worth a mint! :D

Just my "unbiased" 2 cents. Take it or leave it. (Yeah, I know, consider it gone! :cry: )

Otherwise, sounds like a great idea and I wish you the best. Nothing risked, nothing gained. That's what entreprenuer ship is all about!
 

·
The most prolific Distinguished SOTW poster, Forum
Joined
·
27,650 Posts
Phil - you have to keep in mind you have a LOT of competition. Whatever you offer, it has to have something different and special. Probably the biggest market is competition with Yamaha with the school kids. That's on thing. On the other end of the scale is the professional players and you know what the competition is in that realm.

I believe most of the Taiwanese saxes seem to have a Yamaha quality to them. That's perhaps where Cannonball and Mauriat found ways to compete as alternatives.

I would recommend you read the threads here on the Unison saxes and the Steve Goodson saxes to find out what NOT to do. Really - I wouldn't pass this up. (And be prepared to give full disclosure on their source of origin or Grumps will dog you to death! :D )

I can't personally think of any special features I would be looking for or willing to pay extra for (like on Steve's saxes, i.e.) and whatever interest I would have personally in any new sax would be it's affinity to a really good Mark VI alto - and I'm not saying that our of hype. I've had a Mark VI, Mark VII, King Super 20 (sterling silver bell), Conn Lady Face, and Selmer Serie II and the best of the bunch for me was the Mark VI (although in some cases not by far). But I can get any of those other above-mentioned saxes at a reasonable price, except a really good Mark VI.

I agree with Simon about the mpc. Although he didn't specify it, I think including one of the moderately priced mpcs you are now offering on eBay would be something other sax importers could not do. I would also suggest making sure the case is good, and if possible offering a choice of rectangular back-pack and shaped cases.

Good luck. As a consumer, I can't think of anything you could offer except for a primo Mark VI alto copy that I would personally be interested in that is not already on the market. I hope others (and you) can find a nitch and I wish you the very best.
 

·
The most prolific Distinguished SOTW poster, Forum
Joined
·
27,650 Posts
Dang! MODERATORS. Can you move this to another area so it can be edited?

Aside from my personal reputation as a good speller being at stake (harumph), there might be many ideas or second thoughts that contributors would like to revise as this progresses. If they have to create another new post every time they want to do this, this thread could become unwieldy.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015
Joined
·
3,383 Posts
I think Phil has it right with sticking with the highest-end horns he can get and putting them out there at a reasonable price.

What Phil has that others don't is his personal endorsement of quality and consistency.

Some of the other ideas are good too - mouthpiece, shaped case, for example.

Personally, I think it would be cool to have a no-frills "working man's sax". Skip the bells and whistles - no high F#, heck, no lacquer, no engraving! (I'm not a fan of all the shiny stuff out there). Think Ducati Monster S4.

Put every penny into making what's there great... good metal, good pads, good resos, use teflon and ultrasuede for the soft parts, and have it arrive at the customers hands fully adjusted and set up, ready to gig.

THAT would be different than what's available today.

My 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
SactoPete said:
Personally, I think it would be cool to have a no-frills "working man's sax". Skip the bells and whistles - no high F#, heck, no lacquer, no engraving! (I'm not a fan of all the shiny stuff out there). Think Ducati Monster S4.

Put every penny into making what's there great... good metal, good pads, good resos, use teflon and ultrasuede for the soft parts, and have it arrive at the customers hands fully adjusted and set up, ready to gig.
That sounds like a great idea to me as well!

What might also be a sound idea is to offer an accessory upgrade package, such one of your vintage HR mouthpieces and a nice case to replace no mouthpiece and a very plain case. I think lot's of people would like to have the option not to have to spend extra on a new mouthpiece or case when they plan to use their old stuff, but it would be a great option for someone looking for a whole setup.

Also, I think it's also a solid idea (as said above by others) to try to distinguish yourself from the other competitors, like P. Mauriat has done (I'm not a huge fan of their horns, but they're nice horns and I really respect their initiative to venture away from the standard Selmer/Yanagisawa replica), by offering something different than many of the "standard" Taiwanese horns being sold under various labels.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2014
Joined
·
1,370 Posts
When you say "Sell it below what the other guys are doing" are you talking about the Kessler type horns (less than a grand) or the Mauriat type horns?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
Joined
·
4,881 Posts
They'd have to be really great (and distinctive) horns coming out of Taiwan for it to compete well against the Cannonball and P.Mauriat.

If I had the marketing angle like Phil, I'd be more inclined to talk to B&S about doing a stencil.

I just can't bring myself to have a Taiwan, Chinese, or even a Japanese horn yet and I'd probably seek out a Japanese one before the others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
There seem to be lots of tenors, altos, and sopranos out there to choose from. However, it is a bit of a different story on baris.

A really good, solid bari with a great tone for a reasonable price sounds good to me.

Also, don't forget the low Bb option as there are not many modern horns without the low A.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,517 Posts
SactoPete said:
Personally, I think it would be cool to have a no-frills "working man's sax". Skip the bells and whistles - no high F#, heck, no lacquer, no engraving! (I'm not a fan of all the shiny stuff out there). Think Ducati Monster S4.

Put every penny into making what's there great... good metal, good pads, good resos, use teflon and ultrasuede for the soft parts, and have it arrive at the customers hands fully adjusted and set up, ready to gig.

THAT would be different than what's available today.

My 2 cents.
I would agree a little with that. I would recomend 2 types of horns.
1) With Lacquer.
2) No Lacquer.

If you gave people a choice on what they wanted, you would appeal to both groups. The young people like me, who like their horns in somewhat great condition, and the people who don't care what it looks like. If you go lacquer then you will appeal to the student who likes shiny. Honestly when I was younger 8th grade, I just wanted something shiny, just my age level. Now, I want something that sounds great. Offering 2 types might expand your market. You might think about including a reed. A #3 vandoren or something. That way they can play it, right away as stated before.

Also go for the college students, target the Music schools. UNT, UT, A&M, etc. Any big school that has a big band program. Target the Local music stores, the small guys. They can connect in a more personal level than you can, sitting behind the computer selling them. They can play the horn, and that will relive some of the risk of buying via. Internet.

As for the Horn, It should not be overly flashy I will agree. I think that it would be cool to see a horn go back to the glory days of Conn, Martin, Buescher. 1920's through 1930's. More Modern key work, with a old school feel to it at the same time. Maybe a underslung octive key, and a microtuner neck.
Might be extreamly cool to look at and play.
Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,901 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
hgiles said:
They'd have to be really great (and distinctive) horns coming out of Taiwan for it to compete well against the Cannonball and P.Mauriat.

If I had the marketing angle like Phil, I'd be more inclined to talk to B&S about doing a stencil.

I just can't bring myself to have a Taiwan, Chinese, or even a Japanese horn yet and I'd probably seek out a Japanese one before the others.
Don't kid yourself, these are really good and I have those old standards. When you see the prices you'll consider one of a horn you don't have. They'll be the same as Cannonball but cheaper and I'll make them cheaper than the other guys on eBay. Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,901 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Saxland said:
Are they a new design or one already on the market with a another brand engraved on it? Do you have pictures? How you priced them? Is the keywork solid brass? French or Americian sounding sax?

Are you going to have a contest to name the sax models? :D
All the horns coming out of Taiwan are the same. One family makes the keys, one family makes the body etc. then a bunch of different people assemple them and don't let anybody tell you differently. I'm going to blow this scam, and that's what I think it is, a scam but everyone's happy as long as their making money.

Don't be fooled that a Mauriat is better than a Cannonball or visa versa. Cannonball or Mauriat may have more clout because they buy more but all that buys them is the ability to complain so they can return stuff but that's probability all. Phil

I've been in contact with a factory for a while now and I didn't do this sooner because I didn't like the horns but they got their act together. There's some guys gettin a grand for a tenor on eBay, I can get the same horn to you for 7 hundred, maybe even 6. Tell me what you want and I'll get it. Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,901 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Saxland said:
Are they a new design or one already on the market with a another brand engraved on it? Do you have pictures? How you priced them? Is the keywork solid brass? French or Americian sounding sax?

Are you going to have a contest to name the sax models? :D
They're all pretty much the same. Considering my rep I'm going to focus on pro type horns. I don't know what you mean by French or American. I've never met anyone that could tell in a blindfold test. Phil
 
1 - 20 of 411 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top