[saxesarecool]

i recently bought this saxophone. just trying to find more information on it. mainly on the split bell keys since all of the ones that ive found online are all LH bell keys. just wondering why basically.

 

[saxoclese]

I think if it were a Rudy Wiedoeft model it would have that inscription on the side of the bell as shown in this image from World Wide Sax. I have one in my shop in line for an overhaul. I can check that one in the morning as well. I know mine has gold plated keys.

 

[PigSquealer]

just trying to find more information on it. mainly on the split bell keys since all of the ones that ive found online are all LH bell keys. just wondering why basically.

This is a " New Revaluation " produced after February 1931. R.W's have the banner with Rudy's name on right side of bell. Yours was most likely made from post Rudy parts with a split bell. The "R" may exist by serial number....old stock. Lo C key cup on bow. Made from 1931 to mid '30s. Great sounding sax.

 

[saxesarecool]

im confused by the serial number because the serial number puts it at 1930

 

[saxesarecool]

 

[soybean]

Make sure you are using the correct serial list. Yours could be a transition instrument with with a mixture of features.

 

[saxesarecool]

what is the serial number list i should be looking at.

 

[PigSquealer]

what is the serial number list i should be looking at.

Yes it is a 1930. You are using the correct list. https://www.saxontheweb.net/vintage/Holton-1917-1979.pdf
Welcome to the history challenges of Holton.

Yours could be a transition instrument with with a mixture of features.

Appears to be a 1930 transitional sax.

 

[saxesarecool]

what is a transitional in terms of holton. i know that conn had an actual model called the transitional but ive never heard of holton having there own.

 

[PigSquealer]

im confused by the serial number because the serial number puts it at 1930

So here's what I know from studying Frank Holton / Rudy Wiedoeft model saxophones.

The last Holton/Rudy advertising I've found in the archives here https://mtr.arcade-museum.com/ is from February 2, 1929.
The same source I found the announcement in post #3.

The relationship ended between February of 1929 and February of 1931.

I have a 1930 Rudy 203 numbers lower than your "transitional" notice the "R" is missing by the SN#.
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?352138-Rudy-Wiedoeft-alto-1930-cleaning-pictures.

See post #104 here "Rudy #38475" https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?70892-Holton-Saxophone-Serial-number-registry/page6
That's 1595 numbers higher than your #36880.

I also have a similar to yours. #39120 a 1931 with the "R" and split bell. 2,240 #'s higher than yours.
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?368554-Holton-Post-Rudy-USQMC-Alto

Not confused enough yet lol. Read post #171 here
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?70892-Holton-Saxophone-Serial-number-registry/page9

My take. Holton made the RW model as long as he could. At the same time producing a "transitional "(no name). A split bell using parts on hand.
The official name "New Revelation" was announced February 1931. So what the name was prior to 1931 ? Revelation? Yours is definitely not a Rudy.

Other good reading.
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?362802-Rudy-played-a-Rudy!/page2
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?191919-Wiedoft-models-1929-compared-to-1930

Someday the archive will become public.
http://collections.nmmusd.org/Archives/Holton/HoltonArchivePhotos.html

 

[saxoclese]

This is a " New Revaluation " produced after February 1931. R.W's have the banner with Rudy's name on right side of bell. Yours was most likely made from post Rudy parts with a split bell. The "R" may exist by serial number....old stock. Lo C key cup on bow. Made from 1931 to mid '30s. Great sounding sax.

This added low C tonehole was a novel idea to add to the venting of low D which is an "under vented" note on a saxophone---defined as having a closed tone right below the first open tonehole that vents the note. Saxophone players are sometimes required to add low C# to the low D fingering to "open up" a "stuffy" low D. This auxillary smaller low C tonehole that opens and closes in tandem with the regular low C was intended to do the same thing. Unfortunately the "mechanics" of the key work left something to be desired.

Frederic Kirschner in "The Encyclopedia of Band Instrument Repair" (often mislabeled the Eric Brand repair manual) wrote:

"Their attempt at clarification of the middle D by the insertion of the C auxiliary tone hole was, without question, the worst key arrangement that could possibly be conceived by the minds of men."

 

[datsaxman]

what is a transitional in terms of holton. i know that conn had an actual model called the transitional but ive never heard of holton having there own.

Slightly OT:
Not true about Conn "transitional" models. This is a label applied to early 1930s Conns to raise the sellling price.
Conns before the 6M alto and 10M tenor are generally not worth as much as the 6M and 10M.
Conns with one or more of the 6M/10M features are still the older models, but are those saxes some folks call "transitional" models.

dat
sax
man

 

[saxesarecool]

alright thank you everyone for the help. it is very confusing but i understand it more now atleast.

 

[PigSquealer]

alright thank you everyone for the help. it is very confusing but i understand it more now atleast.

Confusing is what makes Holton interesting to me. The history is like one big jigsaw puzzle. SOTW is one of the best sources for the history. Read the Threads start to finish. You will see the history unfolding as members have been studying for years.
If you are planning on keeping it for playing enjoyment it is worthwhile servicing. This is a pro level sax.
Don't sweat saxcolease's reference to Frederic Kirschner. Setting that key mechanism is no more difficult than setting up the BIS.
I am curious to see the neck cork and the tenon clamp.

 

[soybean]

Someday the archive will become public.
http://collections.nmmusd.org/Archives/Holton/HoltonArchivePhotos.html

thanks for that link. Fascinating stuff. Can't wait to see all of that archive.

 

[saxesarecool]

oh yeah it does have a weird neck. the end is removable. the instrument does play very nicely. one of my favorite instruments ive gotten and the only one i have because i wanted to nd not because it was cheap.

 

[bruce bailey]

Many Holtons had that neck bit where the corked bot can be a sliding tuner. Often lost when left in an old or sold mouthpiece

 

[saxesarecool]

the mouthpiece is stuck on it. how do i get it off

 

[PigSquealer]

the mouthpiece is stuck on it. how do i get it off

Quite common problem.
Read from about post #52 on https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?352138-Rudy-Wiedoeft-alto-1930-cleaning-pictures/page3

Take a small screwdriver and poke out as much of the cork as possible. Then the bit should be easy to pull out.

If you want to leave it alone here's how to make another tube.
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...construct-a-Rudy-model-sliding-cork-mechanism

 

[PigSquealer]

oh yeah it does have a weird neck. the end is removable. the instrument does play very nicely. one of my favorite instruments ive gotten and the only one i have because i wanted to nd not because it was cheap.

Cool, is the clamp indexed like this ?