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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi i have an old holton saxophone with a serial number of 19599 which from every list i can find makes it to old to be a collegiate. Yet it has it right on the bell. Can someone please help me date this saxophone?
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Collegiates go back to then 20's...but indeed 19,XXX puts it at 1925 and that is a same-side bell key horn...so it doesn't seem to me it could be from '25.

But then again, Weidoft models started being produced in 1925, and THOSE were same-side bellkey horns...so...(?)

A bit of a head-scratcher....it'd be interesting if Holton actually used the same bellpiece as the Weidofts on their Collegiates...

@PigSquealer is a Holton fan, maybe he has some explanation...?
 

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Collegiates go back to then 20's...but indeed 19,XXX puts it at 1925 and that is a same-side bell key horn...so it doesn't seem to me it could be from '25.

But then again, Weidoft models started being produced in 1925, and THOSE were same-side bellkey horns...so...(?)

A bit of a head-scratcher....it'd be interesting if Holton actually used the same bellpiece as the Weidofts on their Collegiates...

@PigSquealer is a Holton fan, maybe he has some explanation...?
This is really interesting. Most of my knowledge is up to 1935. It's my understanding and I may be wrong. The collegiate line started around 1933. End of the revelation era. At the same time this is definitely a left-hand Bell key & 19xxx is a 1925 number. There is no Eb above the serial number. Also no model designation number. I'm not entirely sure when the collegiate line began model identification. I.e. 566 above or below the serial number. The Bell engraving design appears to be early format. The RH key work is definitely not 1920s. The silver key pictured is 20s keywork. Compared to the brass pictured. What's really bothering me is the round escutcheon plates on the key guards. Holton's are always diamond shaped. So....
i'm guessing this is a 1925 body tube and serial number. It has modern key work of the collegiate line. The bell body is old inventory from the Rudy Era, engraved Collegiate. The wire guards are from 1928 Couturier parts.
Late 1933 to mid 1934.
@Psyphr can you furnish complete photos. Right left top bottom and the LH pinky table.
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Collegiates go back to then 20's...but indeed 19,XXX puts it at 1925 and that is a same-side bell key horn...so it doesn't seem to me it could be from '25.

But then again, Weidoft models started being produced in 1925, and THOSE were same-side bellkey horns...so...(?)

A bit of a head-scratcher....it'd be interesting if Holton actually used the same bellpiece as the Weidofts on their Collegiates...

@PigSquealer is a Holton fan, maybe he has some explanation...?
I have no clue what this is. Scrambled eggs. What do you make of the upper stack? very odd keywork. Common neck.
The pinky G half moon says 200 series. Same with the RH spatulas. LH Bell keys with straight arms. The wire guard is not a 200 series? Wouldn't be the first Holton I have seen as a mixed bag of parts. Still they play well.
@Psyphr some pictures of left side & pinky table could help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have no clue what this is. Scrambled eggs. What do you make of the upper stack? very odd keywork. Common neck.
The pinky G half moon says 200 series. Same with the RH spatulas. LH Bell keys with straight arms. The wire guard is not a 200 series? Wouldn't be the first Holton I have seen as a mixed bag of parts. Still they play well.
@Psyphr some pictures of left side & pinky table could help.
Sorry thought i sent all the pics
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Collegiates go back to then 20's...but indeed 19,XXX puts it at 1925 and that is a same-side bell key horn...so it doesn't seem to me it could be from '25.

But then again, Weidoft models started being produced in 1925, and THOSE were same-side bellkey horns...so...(?)

A bit of a head-scratcher....it'd be interesting if Holton actually used the same bellpiece as the Weidofts on their Collegiates...

@PigSquealer is a Holton fan, maybe he has some explanation...?
I'm still digging. The screenshots are from my 2018 archives. Your thoughts?
too bad all of the archival pictures are wiped out. That would help immensely. Especially with the upper stack. At least with these notes documentation the collegiate origin exists.
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I'm glad to be able to confirm the it was being made at the time thats great. I've been trying to research myself but this has to be the earliest collegiate I can find. But it feels wrong because this was the revelation period for holton still wasn't it? Is it a left over horn that got the collegiate engraving is what I'm starting to question. It doesn't help but i did get the saxophone and a collegiate trombone at the same time and they were in a basement in elkhorn Wisconsin.
 

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Well that's really cool if you got two horns at the same time. Any contact with the family still? It's cool to have the history on these items. Really good condition for being in a basement too.
It's unclear to my knowledge if the revelation era ended during the Rudy era. I do know at the end of the Rudy era they announced the new product as the new revelation.
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I'm glad to be able to confirm the it was being made at the time thats great. I've been trying to research myself but this has to be the earliest collegiate I can find. But it feels wrong because this was the revelation period for holton still wasn't it? Is it a left over horn that got the collegiate engraving is what I'm starting to question. It doesn't help but i did get the saxophone and a collegiate trombone at the same time and they were in a basement in elkhorn Wisconsin.
I wouldn't be too quick to call this a leftover. It's not exactly a transitional either. All the Holton instruments were quality. So what if the parts were a little different. Hard Times made you creative to survive. The Holton L&H - Couturier transition took place April 1928? Just think of what happened a year later. The stock market crash. Holton sold that acquisition to EBI in 1930. So it makes sense that some of your parts could be from '25,28 & 193?

Here is a 1928-30 Beaufort American that just recently sold. Look at the small details and compare to your alto. A lot of similarities if you look hard enough. Keep Digging you will figure it out.

fwiw yes this has beveled tone holes as Couturier did. It's not a Martin.

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