I've recently taken up the tenor sax, and I'm at the point where I'm working on tone development trying to get a nicer sound. After reading various recommendations and watching videos, I've started taking in a bit more of the mouthpiece, but now when I play the high G I get this horrible high-pitched echo. It doesn't happen with any of the other notes and I can't find any instances online where someone else has been having the same problem. I assume it's something wrong with my embouchure, but I've experimented and just keep getting the same horrible echo on the high G. Anybody know why this is happening, and how I might get a nice clean sound instead?
High G echo
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Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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This is a bad idea very often. It is a sort of band aid solution to a "better sound" if your sound is initially a bit stuffy or unlively. I would recommend working on getting a good sound without taking in more mouthpiece because then you have more control over the reed. It takes work, but is worth it for the end result. Especially in regard to versatility.
Howverv there is nothing wrong in being able to play with less mouthpiece, but at times take in more for a variance in tone. However I believe your core sound is best without that much taken in so you have full control over the reed.
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I'm not at all sure what you mean by a high G echo (an overtone maybe??), but if you only get that "horrible high-pitched echo" when taking in more mpc (there's such a thing as too much, as Pete mentions), then I'd suggest backing off and taking in a bit less to where the echo disappears. Find the 'sweet spot' where you can get a good tone and maintain control.
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Play a palm D and see if that is the other pitch you are hearing. G2 sometimes likes to jump to D3 which is the next overtone---especially on some tenors. Part of that can be the player's "voicing" or shape inside the mouth. Make sure the back of the tongue is down as if singing "AHH" and see if that helps. Once you get control, try playing G with an "AHH" and then deliberately forcing the D by switching to "EEE". When you are in control of which overtone sounds instead of the instrument the problem will go away.
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This is probably the issue (maybe the OP can clarify if it is indeed jumping up to an overtone) and as you say the solution has to do with controlling the voicing of the note. But the OP implied that it happened as a result of taking in more mpc, which also suggests it may have to do with losing control over the voicing due to taking in too much mpc. Hard to say for sure...
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"Take in more"... "Take in less"... If we don't know your starting point, then that is bad advice. Instead, take in the correct amount of mouthpiece.
Embouchure matters too. You could take in the "correct" amount, but have a bad embouchure, poor airstream, weak support. There's a lot that goes into a good sound - and even the definition of "good" varies between players.
FWIW, if you experience this on only one horn, and not on several others, then there may exist an issue with the body octave pip. It could be the wrong size, or just be slightly clogged.
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+1. And sure, it could be an embouchure issue or even a leak in the horn. However, if, as the OP implies, it ONLY happened when he took in more mpc, then that might be a direct example of cause & effect. Take in more mpc, G breaks up, take in slightly less, G sounds fine.......that would suggest how much mpc to take in. Maybe it's not quite that simple but perhaps ejorq could come back on here and give us a bit more detail.
Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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Except we know the OP followed (probably bad) advice to take in more and things got worse so "take in less" is an antidote to what went wrong.
I do agree with you though, and it's impossible to prescribe on the internet what is the right amount. However in my experience most problems are caused by taking in too much as opposed to taking in too little.
As already noted, G can be a bitch when learning to play tenor. I had this problem, and I’d suggest taking the advice of saxoclese and Dr G, as following a similar approach was how I essentially managed to get past that problem in my (otherwise arrested) development on tenor. It is a fairly common problem, so you are in good company. Just keep at it, and over time it will happen, that G will get tamed and put back in its right place. However, I do remember it being very frustrating for a time. But if I could get past it, anyone can, as I am a rather poor player (especially these days).
I have a tendency to have that happen on my alto. I believe it's what's known as multiphonics. You get the main tone, G, plus something else and they warble to make a horrible sound. I found that I need to firm up my embouchure just a bit, mainly in my throat, and it goes away. Doesn't happen on the tenor for some reason, just alto. Bottom line is you need to tighten the embouchure just a bit until it stops happening if I have diagnosed what you mean by an echo.
It's not about tightening, it's about pre-hearing the note you want to make, and putting enough air through the horn to make it sound.
Most of these issues would go away if one concentrates on a good solid consistent airstream that feels as if it begins somewhere below the navel and continues undisturbed clear through to the bell of the horn.
Spend more time on long tone/sound development/interval exercises over the full range of the horn and at all dynamic levels from ffff to pppp. That's the real solution.
Most of these issues would go away if one concentrates on a good solid consistent airstream that feels as if it begins somewhere below the navel and continues undisturbed clear through to the bell of the horn.
Spend more time on long tone/sound development/interval exercises over the full range of the horn and at all dynamic levels from ffff to pppp. That's the real solution.
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That's what I'm thinking.
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OK, so you have plenty of responses to this "echo" situation that occurs when you take more mouthpiece but you also need to address your quest for a nicer sound that started this. As stated, you need to start with the proper embouchure. There are several techniques available to you, I happen to prefer this one.
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If we are talking about G in the 'normal range' (not altissimo), I haven't noticed it being any more difficult to play than most other notes, unless the horn has a leak or some other mechanical issue. I don't recall it being a problem way back in the dark ages when I first started on sax, but I could be wrong about that.
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