[Eulipion2]

I'm adapting to my shiny new YBS-62 very well, but I can't seem to reliably play above high D. Palm key response is better than front fingerings by a lot, but palm F# is a bit wonky. Higher baffle mouthpieces like the Metalites and the Jody Jazz Classic with Spoiler do better than lower baffle pieces like the Caravan and Brilhart Personalines, and even the JJ without Spoiler, but none of it is very clear or reliable. I actually get the best response in that range on the stock 5C mouthpiece, but that's really the only advantage that piece gives me over the others, and it's still not that clear or reliable.

Everything seems to want to overblow or play a multiphonic, especially with the low baffle/large chamber pieces. Front E is a particularly nasty note on most if not all of the pieces. I've tried adjusting embouchure, changing reed strengths, alternate fingerings.

I'm currently using a range of Fibracell and Legere Signature reeds, as those are what I prefer on my other horns with similar mouthpieces. The rest of the horn from low A to high D plays smooth and clean from a roar down to a whisper.

So my guesses are 1) key heights; 2) uneven facings; 3) a leak or leaks.

While I think the facing on the Caravan is a bit off it still plays nicely on the rest of the horn. All the others pieces seem to have decent facings. And I'm guessing that a leak that affects the high notes would affect other areas of the horn, especially its ability to play softly, and especially with the Caravan.

So that leaves my main guess: key heights, or maybe I'm just a poor schlub unaccustomed to the idiosyncrasies of playing bari.

Any thoughts, tips, or recommendations would be very welcome!

 

[HeavyWeather77]

You should definitely have it set up by a good tech at some point, that will undoubtedly help things. In my experience, Yamahas are the easiest horns to make speak in every register.

The bari does take very well-developed air support and tongue position, though, especially on lower-baffle, larger-chamber pieces. (And I think the sound you get on those pieces will, in the long run, be much more pleasing and flexible, so it's worth working on.) So once the horn's in good shape, it very well might just be a matter of spending enough time on your setup to adjust to everything with air support. A positive payoff of that will be that working out on the bari will make it seem easier to play tenor or alto!

 

[saxoclese]

If you are using a hard enough reed and still getting a poor response or a multiphonic it could because of the way you are "voicing" those notes. A trick I learned is to first play the note on your airstream. This is done by hearing the pitch of the intended note, and blowing that pitch on your airstream like an airy sounding whistle. Then you play the note using the same airstream and shape inside the mouthpiece that you used while doing the "air whistle". It is a simple concept, but it works. It is especially useful on flute as well.

 

[1saxman]

What he said.
Baritone can be difficult to get the high register clearly. I can point you to many recordings on hit records with bari players missing palm key notes or getting the lower octave. For me, I had to find a mouthpiece that would play the whole horn clearly, and this is usually somewhat of a compromise with the depth of the low notes. I did find the mouthpiece that allows me to play the whole horn like I was playing tenor while still retaining a decent amount of 'boom' on the low tones. That turned out to be a 1975 Brilhart Level Air but I never recommend these as they are long since out of production and they are somewhat variable so several may need to be tried. But years ago, the Level Air was being used by many baritone players and you still see one every so often.

 

[Eulipion2]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I'll take the horn to my local tech to check for leaks. He's not a sax specialist, but he can find leaky pads.

I've been working with "Rascher School" mouthpieces for a long time now, so I definitely know what a beautiful, flexible tone they can produce, but yeah, they take some work to get up and running. And I do think I might need to send the Caravan off to at least have the table flattened; I hear air escaping while playing, and while I'm not a stickler for the suction test, this thing doesn't seal at all. Still sounds good over the rest of the horn, so I'm curious how it'll play with a proper facing.

With the Caravan I can adjust my airstream and embouchure and briefly get the notes so I know that it's possible, but they break pretty quickly after that. I definitely need to put in some long tone/overtone work.

Saxoclese: that's an interesting exercise. I'll give it a try!

1saxman: Level Airs pop up quite often, at least for alto and tenor, and I've been curious to give them a blow on those horns, even though I'm not typically a high baffle guy. The one thing I've learned over the last few years of playing Metalites, Graftonites, and various Brilharts is that Arnold Brilhart knew what he was doing, so I'm sure the Level Air for bari would be awesome -- it's definitely on my list.

 

[lydian]

The elephant in the room here is the synthetic reeds. I find them tough to control in some registers. Try cane.

Leaks can't possibly be responsible for your high F# problem because all the holes are open anyway.

Inexperience is another big factor.

I don't think anything is wrong with your horn or mouthpiece.

 

[kreacher]

Leaks can't possibly be responsible for your high F# problem because all the holes are open anyway.

I agree with you on the most part, but this sentence I don't find quite true. There can be leackage on the neck tenon.

 

[BH9]

leak.

 

[Grumps]

I agree with you on the most part, but this sentence I don't find quite true. There can be leackage on the neck tenon.

If it were the neck tenon, there'd likely be a host of other problem notes down low.

 

[Eulipion2]

The elephant in the room here is the synthetic reeds. I find them tough to control in some registers. Try cane.

I disagree with this. I've been using synthetics for nearly 20 years and love them. Got my degree on them, convinced skeptical sax professors, and even converted at least one. Every so often I try cane again, but the only one I'd consider switching back to is my trusty Lavoz. The Fibracells get me close enough that I'm happy to not have to deal with cane. And while my original love was Legere Classic, I'm really digging the Signatures.

Of course, that's on the other horns, but if bari is so completely different from the smaller horns I'll at least look into it.

Inexperience is another big factor.

No doubt there. Had a similar learning curve with the 'nino.

 

[jmathesonjr]

I bought my 62 brand new in 1992. I had trouble with the range you are talking about and I did some things to correct the exact problem you are talking about here.

1. I finally took it to a sax specialist for adjustment. My local guy did nothing to adjust it from the factory. This range on my 62 required the pads to be re-seated, key heights adjusted, and spring tension upped a little. One my 62, these keys were slightly popping open in the beginning of my playing this model in that upper range. They showed no leaks under a leak light when closed. After a few years, I had kangaroo skin pads put on the palm keys. Leaks vanished.
2. I have found playing a tip opening around 120 when I started on this model helped me tremendously in getting this range smoother. I currently play a tip opening of around 145 with 2.5 to 3.5 cane reeds depending on the day, what I am playing, and my general mood.
3. I have never gotten a synthetic reed to work playing bari. I have tried them all: Legere, Fibracell, Plasti-cover, and few dozen other brands that I cannot think of right now. They all crapped out on me at High D. I seem to get a better sound, better intonation, and smoother transitions between ranges with cane. I use Brancher, Jazz-Select, Vandorn (Blue Box), and, occasionally, ZZ. I prefer the Brancher reeds.
4. Long tone practice in this range with a tuner is essential. Scale practice up in this range is essential as well. Come to think of it, so is arpeggio practice.

The YBS-62 needs a lot of air with good support. I love mine. I have had it re-padded about two years ago and it plays better today than when I bought it. I have yet to find a better model bari.

Keep playing. Get it checked out. Enjoy the sax.

 

[lydian]

I disagree with this. I've been using synthetics for nearly 20 years and love them. Got my degree on them, convinced skeptical sax professors, and even converted at least one. Every so often I try cane again, but the only one I'd consider switching back to is my trusty Lavoz. The Fibracells get me close enough that I'm happy to not have to deal with cane. And while my original love was Legere Classic, I'm really digging the Signatures.

Of course, that's on the other horns, but if bari is so completely different from the smaller horns I'll at least look into it.

It's still the only relevant variable that you haven't changed. I bet your F# will speak fine on cane.

I use synthetics too (going back 40 years) in a few circumstances, ironically only on bari and clarinet where my tone isn't that great to begin with. I also have trouble with high notes on bari using synthetic. No issues at all when using cane. But I don't like synthetic. They feel weird and perform weird. I see them as a necessary evil on my doubles.

 

[turf3]

Get a 12M. Problem solved.

 

[lydian]

Get a 12M. Problem solved.

A cork would be much cheaper ;-). But in all seriousness, I have a 12M and still have problems playing high on synthetics. With cane I have no problems at all. That's my point. I think it's worth a shot before spending a penny on repairs or mouthpieces. Heck, once he gets the feel of those high notes speaking properly, he could probably go back and get the synthetic working too.

 

[Eulipion2]

Get a 12M. Problem solved.

My wife would probably prefer the price of a good 12M over a nearly new 62.

 

[KeithL]

I don't know. The old Conn baris have become desirable and once in really good condition can list for over $3500.

FWIW, I think your issue is a reed that's a bit soft and the way your voicing the notes. I've been playing a lot of bari for many years now and I still have this response issue occasionally. My experience has been that leaks up high on the horn cause you response issues that you'll notice down on the lower end much sooner than you'd feel them up in the 3rd octave. If you really believe there's something up with the horn I'd take a small pipe cleaner and run it through the upper octave vent to make sure it's clear. If that vent is clogged up you'd potentially have response issues up high and in the palm keys that wouldn't effect the rest of the horn. The front E is a bit janky on pretty much every bari I've ever played so that's no surprise.

 

[Eulipion2]

FWIW, I think your issue is a reed that's a bit soft and the way your voicing the notes. I've been playing a lot of bari for many years now and I still have this response issue occasionally.

I'm beginning to think that's part of the issue as well, especially on the Caravan. The Legere numbers seem to run softer than what I expect based on the other horns. I've got harder Legeres on the way, as well as a box of Blue Box 3.5s. I'll still probably send the Caravan off for a proper facing. Air/spit leaking out the sides is definitely a problem. I've had my tenor and 'nino pieces fixed, and my alto and soprano Caravan pieces need some touching up, too. Lovely mouthpieces, but can definitely be made better.

The front E is a bit janky on pretty much every bari I've ever played so that's no surprise.

It's the worst! Other than harder reeds, any tips for making the front E less crappy? Not really relevant, but front E is touchy on my 'nino as well.

 

[sj__sax]

I've found front E to be a difficult note on several different baris (while front F comes out fine). For me, it doesn't speak well, and comes out sharp. A teacher suggested to me once to put down the middle finger of my right hand along with the front E fingering, and I've found this helps a lot, although the palm key fingering is still easier for me. Voicing and reeds are more important as has been stated, but the extra finger helps me.

Oddly, I've never had issues with front E on alto or tenor, even though I play much more bari than any other horn.

 

[Eulipion2]

Oddly, I've never had issues with front E on alto or tenor...

Me either, and it's pretty solid on soprano as well.

 

[KeithL]

I've found front E to be a difficult note on several different baris (while front F comes out fine). For me, it doesn't speak well, and comes out sharp. A teacher suggested to me once to put down the middle finger of my right hand along with the front E fingering, and I've found this helps a lot, although the palm key fingering is still easier for me. Voicing and reeds are more important as has been stated, but the extra finger helps me.

Oddly, I've never had issues with front E on alto or tenor, even though I play much more bari than any other horn.

Exactly - as I suggested it's a challenging note to get to speak cleanly and with good intonation on most baris. I don't play much altissimo on bari so I don't use that fingering much so I've never really made a point of figuring out how to get it to respond better.