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Im in shock right now, on my keilwerth sax that is practically new, the palm key d broke off. I was trying to put the key back on with the screw and when i did I slightly tightened it using the wrench that comes with the sax it just broke off, the screw broke and part of it is still inside the part. I am incredibly stressed right now and I have no idea what to do. Is there a temporary solution before I get it repaired.
Edit: I cannot seem to find an email to contact keilwerth, is anyone aware of an email?

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It seems to be a case of poor silver-soldering. (But also rather a weak point in the construction for this adjustable key concept.)
The more fancy one makes a mechanism, the more chance of something failing.
It could indeed be a warranty job. I would aim for a replacement of that section of the key while you wait. The shop where you bought it could get a key off another shop sax for you, then get a replacement for that sax.
Repair would involve silver-soldering the parts together again, and would burn off the lacquer in the vicinity. Any half-decent technician can do that.
Re-lacquering can be problematic for matching shade.
 

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I guess I have two questions. First, why would somebody design a horn that way? It's so easy to add height to the palm keys in a non-destructive way... Second, why would anyone buy that horn?

If it's still under warranty, I'd demand either a new key, if I was otherwise enthralled with the horn, or my money back, and buy a different instrument. If you're stuck with it, however, it should be an easy job to repair. You will lose lacquer, as has been mentioned..
 

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I've never even seen a KW and had no idea of that adjustable height palm key feature - that is an unnecessary complication. They will be the first to drop out of the 'Big 4'.
 

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If you've ever played a really sweet Keilwerth you know why people play them. There's really nothing quite like them. Very broad and powerful sounding horns with amazingly slick action.

I've seen this one happen before too. But usually due to user error. I think they could easily get rid of the feature (They don't have it on the MKX).
 

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To Gordon:

This is pretty clearly not a problem with the silver soldering, as the break is in the middle of the screw.

To the OP:

Keilwerth is now owned by Buffet-Crampon. You should be able to get this repaired by bringing it to any shop that is a licensed Buffet-Crampon dealer.
To find out what to do regarding warranty, etc., you should contact the Keilwerth rep Al Maniscalco directly. His email is "al[dot]maniscalco[at]buffetcrampon[dot]com" (just replace all the bracketed terms with the corresponding symbols).

FWIW, I've used various different horns and built up the palm keys on some of them. I rather like the Keilwerth system. I've been playing on the same Keilwerth tenor (with this mechanism) for over 20 years and I've never had a problem.
 

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In case you get to a dealer before you are able to contact Al, I think that the part number is #JKA-261-SX-8 (you'll have to specify the finish).

This part number is just for the adjustable touchpiece with the bolt attached. No soldering will be required to fix it. You'll need a screw extractor to pull out the portion of the bolt that broke off in the hole. If you haven't done this before, you should get someone to do it for you. After this is removed, the new part will screw right in.
 

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You are absolutely right. I did not examine the photos closely enough.
I actually meant to address my comment to the Kiwi Gordon (even if the break wasn't due to bad soldering, it's still possible that this could be fixed via soldering).

In any event, if the OP can extract the screw, a temporary solution would be to simply screw the remaining part of the touchpiece directly into the socket (without the nut).
 

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... Keilwerth... There's really nothing quite like them... with amazingly slick action...
Just a warning... Do not apply that high praise to their cheap range. With their knowledge of good octave mechanism design why were they so slack as to accept such a substandard design in their cheaper (Taiwanese) models? The good design would be no more expensive to make.

I guess I have two questions. First, why would somebody design a horn that way...
Quite! There are so many examples of silly design and silly manufacture in instruments, and they tend to carry on doing it for decades.

To Gordon: This is pretty clearly not a problem with the silver soldering, as the break is in the middle of the screw....
True. Thanks for the correction.

Is that post thing actually threaded? (The photo is blurry :) )
That would be absolutely asking for it to break very easily.
 

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Is that post thing actually threaded? (The photo is blurry :) )
That would be absolutely asking for it to break very easily.
That was my thought as well. I previously thought it was a collet assembly, but this looks like a jam nut. If that is the case, it makes it quite easy to overtighten the nut and cause a failure in the threaded section as shown.
 

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Just curious why they made the palm keys that way. Does that mean you can adjust the height and angle? Doesn't look like room for more than a few mm of adjustment either way.
 

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Is that post thing actually threaded? (The photo is blurry :) )
That would be absolutely asking for it to break very easily.
Yes, unfortunately. The post is threaded and the "nut" is indeed a jam nut and not a collet nut. As I said, I haven't had any problems with these, but I have been careful with them.

I don't think there's any real danger of having them break while playing, but they (like any small brass screws) are easy to break by overtightening during adjustment.

I think that the real mistake they made was including a wrench, which encourages the player to mess around with it. When I bought my horn, it did not include a wrench.
 

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Just curious why they made the palm keys that way. Does that mean you can adjust the height and angle? Doesn't look like room for more than a few mm of adjustment either way.
Yes. On my horn, they allow for about 1-2cm of adjustment, depending on the key (i.e., more on F and D, less on Eb). I doubt that many players would need more than that. It's also nice to be able to adjust the touchpiece angle without twisting the key foot or otherwise affecting the key action.
 

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Yes. On my horn, they allow for about 1-2cm of adjustment, depending on the key (i.e., more on F and D, less on Eb). I doubt that many players would need more than that. It's also nice to be able to adjust the touchpiece angle without twisting the key foot or otherwise affecting the key action.
Well, it looks to me like they needed to hire an actual mechanical engineer to design this.

What you have here is a small threaded part, put under tensile stress by the jam nut, then put under bending stress by normal playing forces, made out of brass (a material with large grains, usually) and then it's plated, just to add intergranular corrosion due to sitting in the plating bath (acid). There are so many stress risers in the thing it's no surprise to me it broke.

I can't count the number of times I've twisted off the head of a little brass screw.

A real mechanical engineer would at least have made it a collet design. Frankly I would probably use a steel post silver soldered to the brass touchpiece as well.

What I would do to fix this would be to toss the existing threaded bit, get hold of a plain carbon flat head screw of the same thread, and silver solder that to the touchpiece. At least you would have a material that's inherently strong and much finer-grained than brass, while retaining the original features.
 

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I can't count the number of times I've twisted off the head of a little brass screw.
I agree with this. In fact I myself have sheared the heads off of at least a couple of small brass screws on saxophones (e.g., the locking screws on the G# and front F adjustment mechanisms, which are typically of a much smaller diameter than those under discussion here, and with disproportionately large heads that allow you to easily generate excessive torques).
 

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Gentlemen, there are a couple of other considerations here.

"I guess I have two questions. First, why would somebody design a horn that way..."

One of the main advantages of the SX90R adjustable palm key system is you can lower them too. Mine were set at mid-height when I bought the horn new. The keywork on these horns is built for large hands. I have small hands and have always set the palms at the lowest height. And yes, adjusting the angle of the touchpieces to exactly where I like them is also great. Just loosen the touch piece nuts with the wrench - then set the exact angle you want, and then you can raise or lower the height – tighten the damn nuts and you're done. My SX90R is about 19 years old. I've been hammering on these palm keys for all these years with no problems. But when I started playing more seriously a few years ago, I found I was still hitting the palm keys a lot when I was reaching for lower notes. (Did I mention the keys are built for really big hands?) So I had my tech cut off about 1/4 inch off the posts that the touch pieces screw on to. They are now probably lower than on any other SX90R. And they are finally almost low enough.

Really, I only wish I needed palm risers!

I just think the OP got one bad, sloppy piece of hardware. That sucks Help 7. I really feel for you. But the adjusting mechanism is quite helpful to many players - and of all the KW players I know, no one has had a similar problem.

Second, why would anyone buy that horn?

Steve, they're not for everyone. You wouldn't play these horns for the ergos. But As littlewailer mentioned, the ballsy powerful sound is unlike anything out there. (So is the friggin' price. In Canada at least, they've priced themselves out of the market.) The only other horns that I've ever found with this kind of torque and horsepower was a Borgani and maybe the very, very, very best Selmers I've played. But another reason to like/buy them is they're generally built like tanks. After long sessions, I've done everything from walking into walls bell first, banging them on music stands, tables, desks, glasses, drunk dancers, etc. etc. Geez, It's embarrassing, but I can't break or dent this horn. If you know your sax is gonna be living the bar life, an SX90R just might survive.

Help 7, I hope this is the first and last 'screw' up you have with this horn. And Keilwerth, if you're reading this, you can do better.
 

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Second, why would anyone buy that horn?

Steve, they're not for everyone. You wouldn't play these horns for the ergos. But As littlewailer mentioned, the ballsy powerful sound is unlike anything out there. (So is the friggin' price. In Canada at least, they've priced themselves out of the market.) The only other horns that I've ever found with this kind of torque and horsepower was a Borgani and maybe the very, very, very best Selmers I've played. But another reason to like/buy them is they're generally built like tanks. After long sessions, I've done everything from walking into walls bell first, banging them on music stands, tables, desks, glasses, drunk dancers, etc. etc. Geez, It's embarrassing, but I can't break or dent this horn. If you know your sax is gonna be living the bar life, an SX90R just might survive.

Help 7, I hope this is the first and last 'screw' up you have with this horn. And Keilwerth, if you're reading this, you can do better.
Yeah, I get that Keilwerth instruments have a unique and wonderful sound - not my cup of whatever, but I know a lot of people like them. Your story about having your tech cut down the keys makes sense to me - my question is really about the adjustable mechanism. Key risers are easy to make, and lowering a too-high key is, as you found out, not difficult for a good tech. My point is, adjustable key heights sounds a like a solution in search of a problem to me. They probably charge more for horns that have this. But palm keys are much easier to knock out of alignment, they have to take the weight of the horn when someone lays it down on a piano or a floor, etc. It just seems like a bad idea to me, that's all. Not dissing Keilwerth horns (after all, could Grover ever be wrong???), but this idea just plain sucks.

I'm glad you like your horn, though Sonny - nothing better than a nice instrument! And I too hope that Help 7 gets this issue straightened out.
 
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