[ramcast]

In my case ( like many other people) If I feel that I have reached a point where I am never going to change my mouthpiece or main saxophones. This solution could be, I think, a nice alternative to cork.

Yes it's good to know about this alternative. I just need to find the right gauge of thread and maybe try coating it with beeswax. I'm fortunate enough to have a spare tenor to experiment on the neck, and if it doesn't work, I can use cork later.
Thanks Milandro for the thread! (pun intended).

 

[TurtleJimmy]

I used to use a hemp lip balm when I played the trumpet. There, I've said it and I'm not ashamed! Now, after repenting and rehab, I'm very happy on the tenor sax.


Turtle

 

[Mark Fleming]

My first boats were wooden, and boat repair at the time used various impregnated fibers that had to stand up to moisture and abuse. Hemp, flax, sisal, jute, oakum, are all vegetable fibers. They were usually treated with something (tar, tallow, oil, wax, etc.), to increase the water proofing, but the general idea was that these fibers were the most impervious to moisture and rotting. That's not to say that they wouldn't harbor bacteria, just that certain types of fibres weren't susceptible to rot. I was always amazed by the continued use in the modern day of waxed jute as a propeller shaft packing material. Delrin, Teflon, and other miracle synthetics are all available, yet jute coated in pig fat was still the packing of choice. Hundreds of hours of a spinning propeller shaft and salt water, and you had to renew the rope ever 5 or 10 years. Amazing.

Silk might have been chosen for woodwinds because it is a little slipperier than some of the vegetable fibers. It also can be made into a thinner thread for finesse work. And it doesn't swell very much when wet, which might be good.

I would recommend a silk/bamboo mixture. It would just have to produce an exotic tone on a sax. And you could treat the thread with an exotic oil, like cinnamon, lemon grass, or thyme. Not only do these essential oils sound good, but they have antibacterial properties and even kill things like flu, pneumonia, and E.coli germs. Cork can't do that.

I see a new FlemTone product. And my Martin needs new cork (or a FlemTone Exoticrook sealing system).

Mark

 

[ramcast]

I would recommend a silk/bamboo mixture. It would just have to produce an exotic tone on a sax. And you could treat the thread with an exotic oil, like cinnamon, lemon grass, or thyme. Not only do these essential oils sound good, but they have antibacterial properties and even kill things like flu, pneumonia, and E.coli germs. Cork can't do that. I see a new FlemTone product. And my Martin needs new cork (or a FlemTone Exoticrook sealing system). Mark

Interesting info. You should market that! I should try that silk/bamboo yarn/ thread and I might even steal some of my wife's essential oil to coat it with.

 

[JayeLID]

The parrot's only nailed it in F# minor at the mo but he's makin progress.

Typical fookin' singer.....they always pick the beeeyatch keys....

:dazed:

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

Interesting info. You should market that! I should try that silk/bamboo yarn/ thread and I might even steal some of my wife's essential oil to coat it with.

I think the essential oil will sooner or later go rancid and stink. The stink will permeate the case.

Besides, oil has too-high grip-slip properties in this very slow-speed, reasonable pressure "bearing".

Also on the topic:
- If the "cork" on a sax neck does not do its sealing quite close to then sax body end, then odd acoustic events can be introduced. I think a thick build-up of thread very close to the end will be unstable during sax assembly.
- If the initial layers of the thread are not glued then there could later be a tendency for the whole thready thing to become loose, and on necks without a ridge, come right off.
- For me at least, installing thread and getting the fit just right, is far more time consuming than installing a cork.
- Finding a suitable thread is not so easy. Polymers are mostly too unforgiving, do not hold grease well, and tend to come loose.

So what exactly is the point unless one subscribes to some sort of tone voodoo?
It seems to me that thread on tenons was almost completely given up a long time ago (except on bassoons) for good reason. It still has a place for museum pieces where authenticity may be a factor.

 

[simso]

I see thread used on a lot of stuff ex india, I think its a silly way to do a joint. To me far inferior than standard cork.

I regularly throw away thread that is fitted to bassoons and do them again in cork

 

[adamk]

Most if not all plant material that isn't highly processed is resistant to rot and general invasion by various organisms.
Anything from bees is amazing in this respect.

 

[milandro]

as I have said, my friend and teacher Arthur Heuwekemeijer uses this all the time for a few years now. His mouthpiece, now he uses an Otto Link, ( as shown in the picture published on the previous page) seals just fine.

He found this binding on his Lyrist, a sax from the late '20 ( an obscure French brand which produced very interesting saxophones, Arthur Heuwekemeijer is one of the most informed collectors of this brand he has a couple of dozens of these saxophones) , when he did find it, he thought of using it as it was and he liked the feel and use of it.

Since then he changed a few mouthpieces but kept the basic binding for all of them. Few years have past. The binding hasn't rotted or has started leaking.

Against all the hypothesis of those who say that this can't work, it obviously does!

This is video shot 3 years ago. He already had that sax for a few years. He has updated his mouthpiece several times. In the video he plays a '50 Berg Larsen now he plays the Otto Link which I've shown before. Different mouthpieces same binding instead of cork.

 

[simso]

People are not saying it cannot work, they are merely saying there are reasons why they would not do it.

Just because an individual or two does it, does not mean that it is an industry standard method.

Just because its not the way industry standard does it, does not mean it's no good, it's just there are reasons why others do it differently.

Steve

 

[milandro]

I have never inferred this was an “ industry standard “ method!

From the start I knew it wasn’t. I have been in the business of new and old saxophones long enough to know it isn’t.

I just want to explore the possibility among users and if you are not, you are not.

I understood you point which you already made several times, but I am actually interested to hear from users not from nay-ers.

 

[simso]

Milandro, you are making assumptions again, several times refers to minimum of three, I have replied once to the original thread and told my view, it was a whole 2 sentences.

I then replied to your singular comment re your statement, for all those that say it cant work, this in no way deserves your directed inference

Steve

 

[milandro]

thank you for contributing your ideas to this thread, there was no animosity on my part. Could we move on please?

 

[hornfixer]

This thread should be a sticky.

 

[Mark Fleming]

This thread should be a sticky.

No. The thread has to be slippery or the mouthpiece will not slide on. Yuk yuk.

I've only messed with thread until I replaced it with cork, but it seems that there would be a downside. The thread that I've seen is for clarinet mouthpiece A to fit clarinet A, or for clarinet A upper section to fit clarinet A lower section. No need for clarinet A upper section to fit any other clarinet. For the fickle saxophonist who has several mouthpieces, greased cork offers a larger range of options for mouthpieces. I'm not saying that's a good thing, in fact, I've mentioned the amount of time that I have wasted switching mouthpieces. I might not do that if switching mouthpieces also required adding or removing string for different mouthpieces. I know that I have sold mouthpieces specifically because they had a larger/smaller than "normal" shank bore, even though they play as well as others in my collection.

Sting requires monogamy and cork is for the promiscuous?

Mark

 

[milandro]

that’s good thinking Mark.

I would definitely not recommend this to all sorts of people and that includes people who change a lot of mouthpieces for whatever reason and I surely wouldn’t recommend this to a beginner.

Once you’ve settled on the mouthpiece-horn combination and if you happen to enjoy things like bindings ( steady!.......This is in a forum section open to kids after all ) I would certainly think that one might give it a thought.

My friend certainly likes it and if and when the cork on my super 20 will fail I might be definitely giving it a try.

The reason, by then, won’t be saving the ridiculous amount of money that cork costs for those who don’t buy lots of it but rather more because I would have done something special to my horn which is one of those custom things that people like doing to objects that they like very much.

There is something more aesthetic to a good binding than even the best cork doesn’t have. Incidentally I do like the o rings solution which memeber Saxophone Boutique has shown us before , it has aesthetic merits and probably works very well too but I am more into thread binding than I am in o rings.

I guess my rubber fetish is rather low!

 

[hornfixer]

No. The thread has to be slippery or the mouthpiece will not slide on

I was thinking it needs to be sticky or it would just come off.
How do you get the thread to stay on?

 

[dogster]

Cheers dogster and are you of the " using hemp for medicinal purposes" persuasion or do you use it for musical ones? If the latter, how?

Yes Milandro for medicinal purposes , medittation and relaxation too

 

[riFph]

It is important for bassoons with tapered tenons to get string. Especially on the small end of the long joint, where there is a lot of weight being swung around on a small thin tenon. The string adds strength.

If you were to do it on a sax neck, I would use the same rules. Cotton thread as polyester is elastic and it I would worry it would move around too much over time. I would coat the neck in contact cement just to give it some grip. The bottom layer should be nice and regular as far up as you want to go, side be side like it looks on the roll. Above that, you should move back and forth completely irregular. If you try to keep it smooth all the way up and 1 layer is a little loose, every above layer will be loose.

If you are worried it's not sealing, run teflon tape over the whole thing.

 

[thepoet]

I've used string/cotton on so many fishing rods (built them commercially for a while) and I think it's use on the sax has great merit. If you use rollers and a steady hand you can get the tension just right and build layers if required. Coating the bottom layer would secure it to the neck and the top layer/s would never move. The exciting think for me (other than not having compressed cork issues) is the possibilities of colour, patterns, pictures and endless creativity I could work on. I created all kinds of artwork on rods and no reason this wouldn't be the same. Makes we want to go and cut the cork off one of my necks right now, however I will be patient and let old man time take care of the current cork and then I will give it a go. Pictures will follow once I've played.