Help with reed choice.

1522 Views 35 Replies 13 Participants Last post by John Laughter, 3 mo ago

Vloer

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

Help with reeds

So I've been playing Tenor for 7 months now and I love playing ballads, I can play subtoned, also the low Bb.
I currently use Rico royal 2.5 as my standard reed on my Otto Link STM 7*... I do find that playing subtones requires me to put my bottom lip way back into my mouth and over the reed to get a subtone on the lower notes. I've played on an alto from school which had a 2.0 reed and a very small tip opening 4* yamaha mpc. I was able to play subtones without my lip having to go all the way back but just putting the mpc further out of my mouth, my ambrochoure was the same as playing clear.

I am looking for a more dark sound on my tenor, and don't know if going for a stiffer reed or softer would help, I feel like going softer would allow me to play with those subtones and a more controlled tone. Just like I could on the alto.
I've also been experimenting with my new Otto Link Tone Edge 5*, I can play low notes mores easily but feel like my subtones are harder to play. This is probably because of the smaller tip opening. On this mpc I'm using either 2.5 royal or a 4m select jazz... Big difference... The 4m gives me a louder and fuller sound but won't allow me to play subtones easily, the 2.5 sounds very thin and shrill when I'm playing louder.

I just don't know if softer or louder would be better and wich reed would help me with getting a more dark sound, take as an example Benny Golson, Dexter Gordon, Ben Webster etc.
Thanks in advance!

Ps* My horn is a 'Selmer Bundy II'

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skeller047

· #2 · 3 mo ago

Please only post once.

Reactions: 1

Sacks Of Phones

· #3 · 3 mo ago

Posting only once means you cannot start the same thread in two different areas.

Vloer

Discussion Starter · #4 · 3 mo ago

Didn't mean to post the same thing twice, got confused and thought it posted only half of my text... Sorry! @skeller047 I saw you posted an answer on the other thread which got deleted so I can't see it anymore.

Hassles

· #5 · 3 mo ago

Vloer - you need to realise much of what you wish to achieve is up to you moreso than your gear. Plus - you have made NO mention of the intrument you are playing - some horns play brighter - some play darker. Q: what do you have?

skeller047

· #6 · 3 mo ago

Vloer - what I said on the deleted thread was basically 3 things.

1. stick with Royal reeds for now, maybe go up to a number 3 or 3 1/2 at most. The 4M Select Jazz reed is too hard for you right now.
2. stick with one mouthhpiece - the 5* Tone Edge would be my choice.
3. subtone, as you did on alto, maybe take in a little less mouthpiece. Don’t do a radical embouchure change.

I also suggested that you get a teacher for basic playing mechanics. Usually these kinds of basic approaches are best learned in person with a guide. If you know an experienced player, maybe 2 or 3 lessons will straighten all that stuff out.

lydian

· #7 · 3 mo ago

A #2 on a 4 tip on your alto is like a #1.5 or #1 on your 5* tip on tenor. If you're used to playing reeds that soft, I disagree with the advice to use much harder reeds. I personally don't see how you could do anything except subtone on an alto/tenor on reeds that soft unless you're 95 years old and have only one lung. You really need to work on your embouchure and breath support.

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Vloer

Discussion Starter · #8 · 3 mo ago

lydian said:
A #2 on a 4 tip on your alto is like a #1.5 or #1 on your 5* tip on tenor. If you're used to playing reeds that soft, I disagree with the advice to use much harder reeds. I personally don't see how you could do anything except subtone on an alto/tenor on reeds that soft unless you're 95 years old and have only one lung. You really need to work on your embouchure and breath support.

Thanks for the reply, I can subtone a 3.0 reed fine... Also on my 7* link. It is just that I'm wondering if a softer reed would make playing soft with a controlled sound easier?

lydian

· #9 · 3 mo ago

Vloer said:
Thanks for the reply, I can subtone a 3.0 reed fine... Also on my 7* link. It is just that I'm wondering if a softer reed would make playing soft with a controlled sound easier?

Softer is always easier, especially on the low end. But the higher register and max volume suffers. You have to find a good compromise so you can play the entire range, not just the low end.

On a 7*, I would personally find a 3.0 to be just about right for both the high and low end. So I would encourage you to keep what you've got and practice.

turf3

· #10 · 3 mo ago

Well, you're playing an extremely ordinary setup. Personally I'd focus on learning how to play this setup. With only 7 months total, some of which was undoubtedly spent just flailing about, you don't nearly have a tenor sized airstream or a well developed embouchure.

What you need to be doing is learning how to control the dynamic level and timbre of your sound with your embouchure, voicing, and airstream.The good old long tones are a fast track to that, if you'll do them with ATTENTION and with INTENTION.

I will say that although tenor is not my main instrument, I've been playing it for 45 years now (baritone is my primary, alto a close second), I'm well known for having stong chops and blowing hard, and I wouldn't be playing a setup any harder to blow than what you're using. My tenor Link is a 6 but I'm using reeds that would probably be more like your #3s. So bumping up your reed strength, or fooling around with flavor of the week, is probably not going to HURT you but it will distract you from what you need to be doing which is building chops to have a rich compelling flexible sound. Your setup is extremely unlikely to be hindering you in that.

It's like the guy who can't get any distance off the tee so he keeps buying drivers, but what he needs is to straighten out his swing. Until he does that, the $100 set of clubs from the pawn shop is as good as the $2000 set.

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Vloer

Discussion Starter · #11 · 3 mo ago

turf3 said:
Well, you're playing an extremely ordinary setup. Personally I'd focus on learning how to play this setup. With only 7 months total, some of which was undoubtedly spent just flailing about, you don't nearly have a tenor sized airstream or a well developed embouchure.

What you need to be doing is learning how to control the dynamic level and timbre of your sound with your embouchure, voicing, and airstream.The good old long tones are a fast track to that, if you'll do them with ATTENTION and with INTENTION.

I will say that although tenor is not my main instrument, I've been playing it for 45 years now (baritone is my primary, alto a close second), I'm well known for having stong chops and blowing hard, and I wouldn't be playing a setup any harder to blow than what you're using. My tenor Link is a 6 but I'm using reeds that would probably be more like your #3s. So bumping up your reed strength, or fooling around with flavor of the week, is probably not going to HURT you but it will distract you from what you need to be doing which is building chops to have a rich compelling flexible sound. Your setup is extremely unlikely to be hindering you in that.

It's like the guy who can't get any distance off the tee so he keeps buying drivers, but what he needs is to straighten out his swing. Until he does that, the $100 set of clubs from the pawn shop is as good as the $2000 set.

I guess that's true yes, I have an recording from Autumn in New York wich I played on the Link STM 7* with a 2.5 reed, what could I work on in your opinion? https://soundcloud.com/WAqXF

Vloer

Discussion Starter · #12 · 3 mo ago

Luister naar Autumn in New York van Vloer op #SoundCloud https://soundcloud.com/k4MGL

lydian

· #13 · 3 mo ago

Neither of your links work for me. User not found. Maybe it's not available in the US?

Vloer

Discussion Starter · #14 · 3 mo ago

Luister naar There Will Never Be Another You van Vloer op #SoundCloud https://on.soundcloud.com/xqkXE

https://soundcloud.com/xqkXE
One of these may work? The other ones also didn't work for me.

Vloer

Discussion Starter · #15 · 3 mo ago

https://soundcloud.com/FPP7J

Vloer

Discussion Starter · #16 · 3 mo ago

Strange... These also don't work for me.

Vloer

Discussion Starter · #17 · 3 mo ago

Autumn in New York (bahbah editie).mp3

1 file sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world

we.tl

Can't go wrong with an WeTransfer link

BrianMitchellBrody

· #18 · 3 mo ago

Yes

Travsax

· #19 · 3 mo ago

Your tone on the recording you shared sounds fine to me. It seems to be within the ballpark of what you described you were looking for.

Reactions: 1

turf3

· #20 · 3 mo ago

You want some honest feedback?

1) Work on being more rhythmically solid.
2) Put some air through the horn.
3) Play long phrases, not just pecking at it. (getting good full size breaths will help you with this.)
4) The shallow fast vibrato makes it unclear whether you're going to do vibrato or not. Just like everything else in performance, effects have to be played in a way that feels exaggerated to you in order not to come across as tentative out front of the horn.
5) Put some air through the horn.

The basic sound is fine. It's just underdeveloped. A few months playing long tones outdoors will go a long way to getting rid of that "practice room sound". Sorry to call it the way I hear it, but there it is.

There's nothing here that some serious practice won't make a whole lot better. Equipment (reeds, mouthpiece, etc.) is not the answer.

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