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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all, first post!
Ive been lurking around this forum for awhile now, tried to post here once but the post didnt go through. Anyways, ive been playing tenor for about a year, and decided to branch out into Bari. I bought a really old, really beat up 1931 True-Tone Baritone on ebay, its got a huge dent in the bow and is missing a pivot screw somewhere, otherwise its complete and apparently (according to seller, so who knows) in okay order. I can do all of the pads/corks/felts myself. Anyways, my question is, how much would a dent like this cost to get repaired, or is the sax even worth repairing? If not I wont be hearbroken, please be honest with my chances on this thing!
EDIT: Also, on the Bow, notice that theres a small grouping of dents that appear to push outwards? Is that the result of someone trying to push the big dent out with something pointy or something?








 

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nice horn, probably a great player when restored. It doesn't look too bad to me! I've seen a lot worse at my technician's (impractical for you because you wouldn't want to send it to Europe because of costs of to and fro shipping but he would do a complete rehaul and taking care of the dents for 500-600 U.S. dollars....), so probably worth exploring local possibilities. Very likely worth having repadded too if they have to take the dents out .
 

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It doesn't look bad to me especially if none of the keytubes/screws/rods are corroded shut. The dent at bottom of bow would need major work to restore - I would probably leave it alone (been there).
 

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Yes, the little dimples are from someone trying to push out a larger dent. All in all, great horn; nice shape. It should be a real player. The cost of repairing the dented bow will vary wildly from tech to tech.
 

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The dent in the bell would take less than 2 minutes.

The reinforcing strip along the bow does not look to strong, so I think most of that denting could be removed through the bell and the C tone hole, in under half an hour, without soldering anything. Perfection could be a big job though.

Also, consider that a knock sufficient to put a dent like that in a Baritone is likely to have jarred several posts out of alignment, and possibly bent the body tube.

A sax is a mechanical contraption whose precision has to be high in order to function well.

So is a motor vehicle.

It is impossible to evaluate the sax's mechanical condition from photos, but to be realistic, you should assume that it may be similar to that of a well-used, unrestored, 1931 motor vehicle. In intonation, evenness of response, mechanical design, etc, one could also realistically compare it to those features of a 1931 motor vbehicle... Oil leaks, breaking axles, smoking exhaust, clanking differentials, blowing head gaskets, warping cylinder head, ....

Saxes are not magically different from other precision mechanical contraptions. Restoration (and actual improvement to reliable mechanical function)can be very, very time consuming, hence expensive.

On the other hand, you could be very lucky.
 

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It looks very straight and pretty good overall. The main drawback looks to be the lacquer loss; if, indeed, that is the worst thing about it, then it's a steal.
 

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The first thing I would do is put some tape on the neck and blow some notes through it. If the low end (from F down to low B) plays without a huger amount of warble, it may be OK. Some older True Tone Baris have a strange warble down low. Although I have had success reducing this, it is the worst problem to solve I have encountered.

If those notes warble, you might just take it to a tech to have some bad leaks taken out to test it again. If they still warble, and the tech thinks it should at least play based on the leaks, get rid of it.

I would not be surprised if this instrument does not have that problem but is well worth checking into before you proceed.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hmm, so the dent in the bow wont drastically alter the sound? My repair tech mentioned in regards to another sax that large dents often warp tone holes, resulting in huge leaks. Also, looking at saxpics.com, there should be a "fin" that attaches the reinforcing strip on the bottom, does anyone know where to get one?
 

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well, it all depends on the sax itself we can't evaluate anything over pictures.

But normally a large dent will displace metal from it's original position. So that dent in the bow possibly moved some of hte bell and lower stack toneholes and make them uneven.

But it honestly doesn't look THAT bad, the Lower C tonehole may have bent a little bit. But it really just looks in pretty good condition. Not really cosmetically but assuming all the rods and screws aren't bent or corroded stuck.

I would take it to a well recognized tech in your area and have it evaluated before you do anything. It can either range from crazy expensive to just not horrible but still under it's retail value. I wouldn't waste your time with it if you coudln't sell it for more hten it cost to buy and repair that sax.
 

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Cerot said:
Hmm, so the dent in the bow wont drastically alter the sound? My repair tech mentioned in regards to another sax that large dents often warp tone holes, resulting in huge leaks. Also, looking at saxpics.com, there should be a "fin" that attaches the reinforcing strip on the bottom, does anyone know where to get one?
Some models of sax do indeed have a tendency to warble around low B,C,C#. If this is inherent in the design, rather than daces by a leak, then the most likely fix is to reduce the bore cross-section at the bend, even by simply dropping a mouthpiece cap or cork into the sax. And this is exactly what your dent does. Because of the odd effects of having a sharp bend in a sax, it is most likely that a sax plays BETTER with a dent in the bow, and probably a larger dent than you actually have.

BTW, dents here are far easier (using magnet system, "MDRS") to remove if that reinforcing strip is unsoldered. These strips are tricky to re-solder, so leave the strip off, and use one of the plastic self-adhesive strips, that are a recent solution. I think they are available via Badger State Repair & Supply, 204 West Centralia, Elkhorn, WI 531231, 262-723-4062
 

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Hey,
Nice looking horn. Don't worry about the dents - it's a bari - nobody expects a vintage bari to be pristine..

Besides my Martin bari has the bow pushed in way worse than that - and it plays great with no adverse effects on intonation. If you want to know where it stands get a leak light/rope light in the bore and see how things are sealing. No reason you couldn't change a few pads and just keep on playing it IMO..
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for all the reccomendations guys! I ordered one of the music medic kits to do the basic stuff, and I guess ill leave the giant dent there and see how it works out. Ordered a mpc for it too (dont know how that will work out, its a Meyer 10M, very open apparently). So since nobody mentioned it, I assume a missing pivot screw is nothing to worry about? Are they relatively easy to find/interchangeable? Anyways, if anyone is interested in how this old monster works out ill post something when it arrives :)
PS: Ive got an old 1922 or so Silverplated Conn Alto coming too that my repair tech is going to look over, I cant wait to see his face when I say "Oh and I got this thing too!!".
 

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So since nobody mentioned it, I assume a missing pivot screw is nothing to worry about? Are they relatively easy to find/interchangeable?
A new one needs to be made.
 

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JfW said:
A new one needs to be made.
Pivot screws come in dozens of different thread and shape combinations. Either you need the correct one, or a similar one and adapt it, or make one, copying one of the others.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Bari arrived today, its pretty ugly, which I like :)
Its actually missing 2 pivot screws the ones that hold on the lowest of the pinky keys, so I just kind of held it on there with 2 nails pushed through the holes to hold the rod on (much smaller diamater, dont worry, I didnt force a large nail into the hole..). It has all its original snap in pads, dont know if thats a plus or minus but I kind of like them (they are torn though, need to be replaced). All in all a neat horn :)
 
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