Help Make Sense Of What I'm Learning!

I understand what you both are saying - I don't want to JUST learn theory. But I do want to have some sense of what I'm doing, rather than feeling like I'm randomly trying to play notes over a song. It's clear that playing the melody is not random, nor is improvisation. I'm sure that a lot of improv is arrived at by trial and error, and by having a good ear for what fits over the song, but it's not entirely random either is it? It has a lot to do with understanding harmonic intervals, chord changes, and all that, which is theory right?

I am reading the other threads and I try not to repeat questions. But what I'm really looking for is what skills sets does one develop after getting the basics like fingering, embouchure, scales, some speed on exercise, long tones, tonguing, and being able to sight read basic songs?

I'm a late bloomer with a career, so I'm not trying to become a pro. But I want to play well, enjoy it, and also understand the instrument and the music.

I am trying to develop a better ear, and I do listen to music a lot every day. There are many musician/experts putting out theory and exercise books, like Levine and Coker (I have both) so there must be a use for the theory as part of learning, right?

I'm wondering if part of what you feel you are missing is what these seemingly disconnected arpeggios have to do with the musical aspects. In this respect I do think knowing some theory will help you. I do not mean in place of internalising the music or using your ear, all paramount. But if you can analyse a tune, see where the harmony is going and why, particularly in relationship to the form, then I think it will help you put it all into context when you play.

Therefore, I would recommend your using one of the online theory sites or getting a good, understandable theory book (check out the books and comments on amazon). If you don't know where you are going in a piece and what it's architecture is, you run the risk of just rambling in your solos. All these "random" ii-7/V7s are going someplace. You need to know where that someplace is.

Regarding your "wondering if there is a logical, or typical order in which to learn chords" - yes. The traditional way is learning them going around the circle of fifths (root movements of fourth up/fifth down), since this is the basic pattern found in standards.

So: 2-5 (1) in C, 2-5-(1) in F, 2-5-(1) in Bb, etc. The 1s are in () because it might make more sense to your ear to resolve the 2-5s to the 1 but as you progress, you might want to drop the 1 since in much standard music the 1 is just as often implied as played.

Thanks for the input all of you. I do have some of those books, and I will take your advice on spending more time on one tune and trying to understand the structure, etc.

I do have a teacher by the way. I had to change teachers, and this one is new, although he's been teaching for a very long time, and he learned from Joseph Allard. So I guess I have to trust him more on all of this. Both teachers I've had so far seem to get into theory on a need-to-know basis. I suppose there's a reason.

Gary, yes, you hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out. Like with anything, whether it be a new language, a profession like medicine or law, you have to have a certain foundation - the alphabet, the grammar, anatomy, or how to find and read a law. I'm trying to learn those basics and understand how they fit into songs and improvisation. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me otherwise (although there's a certain amount of fun in just playing the tune and making it sound good).

Many great artists were made to do sketches and mix colors before they were even allowed to paint. There is a logic and a structure underlying art much as everything else.

Maybe some people can play great solely by ear. I'm not one of those people.