[greatlakeswinds]

Got this horn in the other day, and I'm unsure who made it. Normally Olds Ambassadors were made by Pierret, but this doesn't appear to be one of those. Of note, it is not marked PARISIAN Ambassador, just "Ambassador" and "A-70". I suspect it may be a Keilwerth stencil based on attributes noted below, but a few things still bother me...no "Made in Germany" stamp (no country of origin stamp at all actually), and it does not have rolled tone holes. Amati was another possibility I was thinking, as they had some ties to Keilwerth , and thus similarities. This is what I noticed about the horn that leads me to think Keilwerth:

- unique shape of low Eb/C key touch
- "tulip" shaped unadorned sheet metal key guards
- Rod style bell/body and loop/body braces
- diamond shaped posts
- neck re-enforcement plate

All these things seem to be a match to the stencils produced for Bundy (Special), except that this doesn't have the RTH.

 

[milandro]

Yes it is, origin is not always marked on these horns but it is , without any doubt, a toneking IV baritone

 

[greatlakeswinds]

Yes it is, origin is not always marked on these horns but it is , without any doubt, a toneking IV baritone

Did the series IV not have RTH? I thought those Bundy Special stencils were series IV and did have RTHs. Or maybe Olds specified a lower cost option without?

 

[milandro]

No, not one IV that I have had had rolled toneholes.

I have had Keilwerth stamped Keilwerth and several other stencils stampend with other names all straight holes. I have had at least 4

 

[greatlakeswinds]

No, not one IV that I have had had rolled toneholes.

I have had Keilwerth stamped Keilwerth and several other stencils stampend with other names all straight holes. I have had at least 4

Thanks for the info! I've had a few Bundy Special altos with RTH, but now that I think about it, they were probably older...maybe series ii or iii.

 

[Lambros]

This horn (TK IV) is also the basis for the Superba II series as well. No rolled tone holes.

 

[JayeLID]

There's a NEW one on me...had never seen a JK-made Olds Ambassador before.

Interesting.

(I hope that bellbrace impaction into the tube isn't causing leaks).

 

[1saxman]

'Normally Olds Ambassadors were made by Pierret'

Only the Parisian Ambassador. Many Ambassadors were made by Martin with soldered-in tone holes. Even so, they're still not worth a crap.

 

[Stocker]

Interesting... this is the first I've seen of a Keilwerth-built Olds. Probably from the late '60s or early '70s - do you have the serial number?

Thanks for the info! I've had a few Bundy Special altos with RTH, but now that I think about it, they were probably older...maybe series ii or iii.

Baritones were more likely to have straight toneholes even if their alto and tenor counterparts had rolled ones. The Couf Superba I baritone I played for a time had straight toneholes despite being the upper-end model.

 

[musekatcher]

'Normally Olds Ambassadors were made by Pierret'

Only the Parisian Ambassador. Many Ambassadors were made by Martin with soldered-in tone holes. Even so, they're still not worth a crap.

Mine is an Olds Parisian Ambassador bari. "Made in France", looks like a 60's Pierret, It plays, looks different, serves a purpose. The action and spacing is nice if your main horn is a tenor or alto, maybe these were designed for smaller student hands? Its fine for what it is, and I'd gig it, but I know what you mean, its not a MVI.

 

[greatlakeswinds]

(I hope that bellbrace impaction into the tube isn't causing leaks).

That's actually a bit of an optical illusion. Just a weird reflection. It might be pushed in a tiny bit, but not as it appears at first glance in the pic.

 

[greatlakeswinds]

Interesting... this is the first I've seen of a Keilwerth-built Olds. Probably from the late '60s or early '70s - do you have the serial number?

It's 70,9xx.

 

[milandro]

1972 or thereabouts, the bell to body brace is rather robust