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Discussion Starter #1
Hi. This would be my first post here, so please be gentle 🙂 I am an amateur trumpet player from Romania and recently felt being drawn to the tenor saxophone. My question is what tenor to buy in the following circumstances: $250 (200€) budget, used horn, no saxophone related knowledge (yet).
I can choose between the following:
Amati Classic
Keilwerth Model 3
Keilwerth "Student"
Weltklang, Markneukirchen Klingenthal
Any othe suggestion?
Thank you very much
Best wishes from Europe
Horatiu
 

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Good Morning Horatiu, Welcome on sotw,

there are many previous threads on choosing a tenor (first or otherwise) or any other horn. This forum has vast archives going back to 2003 and more, use them before you post anything, you will find more there than any new post will ever give you.

Please familiarize yourself with the search engine, read this.

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?365784-Searching-SOTW&p=4045850#post4045850

Between the horns that you have to your avail over there I would certainly go for a Keilwerth but not any student or any type III ( what do you mean by model 3?) .

Many lesser Keilwerths were made by Amati ( read this thread https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?111735-Keilwerth-Made-In )

I wouldn’t go for any Amati or Weltklang unless you are really looking at buying a budget horn. I suppose you may be in Greece or Cyprus. I know that the market there is not as large and in other countries.

Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi. Tks for your reply. As I stated, I am from Romania. And, yes, my budget is low. Would any other new chinese made tenor be a better choice?
 

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Hi. Tks for your reply. As I stated, I am from Romania. And, yes, my budget is low. Would any other new chinese made tenor be a better choice?
Sorry lost the Romania part.

The €250 part makes a very tight budget.

No, there is no Chinese horn that would be necessarily or per se better better than any of these. I would certainly , normally, advise against one new Chinese horn as opposed to a secondhand horn but , due to your extraordinary budget restrictions, you may need to go the Chinese way!

I suppose you may mean TONEKING model 3 but, make sure you mean that (by the way you can edit a post without posting a new answer), make sure that that is the case.

A toneking model 3 in my neck of the woods would cost around €1000!

Keilwerh ST 90 III or EX model III are not the same as a Toneking model 3.

There is nothing wrong about Amati or Weltklang but these are horns that are very cheap on the secondhand market, whilst the Keilwerth ( even those made by Amati) are more expensive and those made by Keiwerth themselves fetch even 400% more than a horn made by Amati or Keilwerth.

Buying a horn from the US or utside the EU would incur the high VAT extra calculated also on the shipping charges, so if you decide to buy abroad you may want to remember this.

I would certainly consider other brands that are not normally very expensive such as Jupiter or Director Conn shooting star made in Mexico or King 615. Of course the Weltklang and Amati would maybe also qualify.

All of these are generally very cheap but even then I am not sure I would be able to acquire anything on such a tight budget especially if you want them playing! The Cheapest overhaul in the NL is €350 so you can imagine that it is next to impossible buying anything (well) overhauled for less than the overhaul price alone.

Being in Romanaia you could try to find a LUXOR made by Arta Guban Timisoara. They are not bad at all and few people want them so the price may be very low.
 

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The early ones , LUXOR, are good horns, albeit not modern mechanics. Provided you can find one in good playing order at ONLY €250... you can’t do wrong ( if playing well, and with good pads).

I have no idea of how much you can find these locally. You can just about , maybe,. find a Chinese horn at that price point but I wouldn’t recommend it and NOT because is Chinese but because at that price point it will be hardly possible to have a well regulated new horn. I am sorry but you should really try to increase your budget to have a better choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I've just been offered a vintage LUXOR SOLO tenor in need for some work (maybe new pads) for 100€. Should I go for it?
 

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Hi. Tks for your reply. As I stated, I am from Romania. And, yes, my budget is low. Would any other new chinese made tenor be a better choice?
No it would not be. Not a $250 new horn. Stay away from those. I would rather have ANY of the saxes on your list than a $250 asian cheapie.

First of all, make sure the sellers of the used saxes all guarantee the sax is in GOOD playing condition. And they will take a return if it is not. Because for very low priced used saxes, most of the time the horns are NOT in good, serviced playing shape.

It would help if you could post photos of the Keilwerths...because as MIlandro has noted, these names you have indicated are not ones we can identify exactly.

If a New King type 3 is what you mean, that is the best sax on your list. But a picture would tell us for certain.

I heard about Guban Timis horns, but disregarded them ... are they ok?
Arta Gubans can be good horns, too (the Luxor is likely an Arta Guban made sax). I have repaired three of them and they were quite decent.

Again, if you post a photo that would help.

The problem with that one is, seller says 'it needs work - new pads for 100 euro'

New pad work, as Milandro suggests, can often run far above only 100 euro...so again, ask where he got that number. 100 euro of tech repair work does not get you very far, perhaps 2.5-3 hours of repair work at most (?)

Or.... you can simply say...."OK, can you please have the pad/repair work done before I pay for it ?...so you can deliver the sax to me in good playing shape, and I will of course pay you the extra 100 euro ? "

This way it is not your responsibility to go searching for a repair person.
 

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I've just been offered a vintage LUXOR SOLO tenor in need for some work (maybe new pads) for 100€. Should I go for it?
Much depends on what is needed, if it doesn’t play, work wil cost you more than your budget allows for.

By The Way




You don’t need to post again you can edit the precedent post.



As for mechanics

Well, it is difficult to condense, in a few words, a lot of knowledge needed to explain what old or new, but mechanics in all saxophones evolved and before they found the present form there were several stages, the Arta Guban weren’t at the forefront of development. Ever.

Luxors are not bad, but you really need to have them assessed by a player or a tech.

I have been able, in the past, to buy saxophones at a very tight budget, but I know what I am doing. If, as I suppose, you are new to this, then it will be too expensive to try to learn “ by experience”. Chances are that you will spend more and get less that you may.

Horatiu, I don’t want to discourage you but at this level of budget you can’t make any mistake and don’t have any slack, beside, you need a LOT of luck. I know that In Eastern and Central Europe, paradoxically, instruments can be even more expensive that the rest of Europe, because there are few and quality is not, generally, great.

I have here in the NL a POlish buyer who has bought from me several times instruments that are then brought to Poland, fixed (work is a lot cheaper than here) and then resold but prices there are fairly high.

This is a Arta Guban at 800 Lei....looks ok (is it the one that you are looking at?)

https://www.olx.ro/oferta/saxofon-tenor-arta-guban-IDcUa0g.html#cf62a50a4e


 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you for the detailed informations... that's so great! I wasn't clear enough: the price of the horn os 100€. And I will have to get it in working condition. I already bought it. Hope to get it soon.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
In the meantime, I also found a Buescher Aristocrat 200 USA tenor. Are these ok horns? It is in very nice used condition, for about 340€.
 

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I'd look for a Yamaha 23 or 26 one in that price range may be dented and beat up but if its mechanically sound it's worth it and you can always have it fixed or upgrade in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I finally got a tenor: a nice used Arta Guban that sounds fantastic in my unexperienced ears. I changed the majority of the corks and of course I messed up all the horn. Then I did it again and again ... and now is fine again. I checked the hirn for leaks and filled up a hole. I filled the biting marks on mouthpiece that came with the horn. I also have a Yamaha 5C mouthpiece, but that noname sounds better and easier to me. Just need to change the neck cork. Oh, and I made my own neck strap out of leather.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Would somebody recommend a reed for soft, dark, smooth tenor playing (as a beginner, *of course)? I don't like my loud playing and my harsh attacks. I am currently playing on a 2 Vandoren Classic, I think.
 

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Would somebody recommend a reed for soft, dark, smooth tenor playing (as a beginner, *of course)? I don't like my loud playing and my harsh attacks. I am currently playing on a 2 Vandoren Classic, I think.
Coming from trumpet, you'll need to learn a new approach to tonguing - hence the "harsh attacks". Loud playing, however, is moderated just as on trumpet - don't blow so darn hard. :bluewink:

I will leave it to others to suggest a reed pairing for your mouthpiece.

Enjoy the horn!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Would somebody recommend a reed for soft, dark, smooth tenor playing (as a beginner, *of course)? I don't like my loud playing and my harsh attacks. I am currently playing on a 2 Vandoren Classic, I think.
Coming from trumpet, you'll need to learn a new approach to tonguing - hence the "harsh attacks". Loud playing, however, is moderated just as on trumpet - don't blow so darn hard. <img src="http://forum.saxontheweb.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=42337&d=1361589177" border="0" alt="" title="Blue Wink" class="inlineimg" />

I will leave it to others to suggest a reed pairing for your mouthpiece.

Enjoy the horn!
Thank you
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Tenor comparison

Hi again.
Would anybody tell me wich tenor saxophone is better for the same money: the Conn CTS-280 or the Jupiter 787 ? I found one of each in similar condition, same price.
Thank you.
 
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