[Nathanates]

Hi everyone! I just want to share with you my 1962 King Zephyr tenor. I’ve always wanted to know more about my sax and maybe some of you can give input on its possible market value (based on pics). Im surprised they look quite similar to the famous Super 20s.
Any of you have units close to my prod year? How’s your experience?

Thank you so much!

 

[bvandrasik]

Looks nice! I had a Zephyr of this era. Not the most desirable, but still great big King sound and very free-blowing. I think the silver-plate finish is rather rare.

 

[Nathanates]

Looks nice! I had a Zephyr of this era. Not the most desirable, but still great big King sound and very free-blowing. I think the silver-plate finish is rather rare.

Actually Im not sure if its really silver plated, I bought it from someone and I think he mentioned it was re-plated / relacquered before?

 

[milandro]

I don’t think this is Silver plated, I think it is nickel plated and I am quite sure that the plating wasn’t born together with this particualr saxophone, it has been certainly replated and nickel is the most likely candidate.

This is the main problem with your horn. It will not please anyone interested in an original finish King .

Having said this it is certainly one of the late zephyrs that I like the most. I like to buy and re sell horns but frankly speaking this would be a difficult one to resell and even to value.]

My 460xxx Super 20 is Eastlake so yours was made just before the moving.

I love my Super 20 and I love the horns of this vintage ( Mine is 1970) but I would think that you Zephyr is better kept than sold, you are not going to make a great deal of money and it probably plays better than it looks.

 

[Nathanates]

I don';t think this is Silver plated, I think it is nickel plated and I am quite sure that the plating wasn';t born together the saxophone, it has been certainly replated and nickel is the most likely candidate.

This is the main problem with your horn. It will not please anyone interested in an original finish King .

Having said this it is certainly one of the late zephyrs that I like the most. I like to buy and re sell horns but frankly speaking this would be a difficult one to resell and even to value.

Thanks for the input, that was what I was hoping to discuss also, the non original finish. Would it be better de-lacquered? Altho I';ve read its hard to remove nickel plating..

On the upside tho, I love how it plays. Very strong with a big voice.

 

[milandro]

Thanks for the input, that was what I was hoping to discuss also, the non original finish. Would it be better de-lacquered? Altho I've read its hard to remove nickel plating..

No just leave it as is, taking the plating away would make it even worse with buffing every little trace of an engraving that is left under the plating. Besides , de plating, buffing, taking the horn apart, change all pads and felts, put it back together would probably cost as much as you can get once it sells.

Seriously keep it, and don't invest any more money that it needs if you decide to sell.

Where are you in the world? This may influence your hopes to sell because something tells me that where you live there aren't as many saxophones as in US or western or north EU.

 

[Nathanates]

Thanks for the input, that was what I was hoping to discuss also, the non original finish. Would it be better de-lacquered? Altho I've read its hard to remove nickel plating..

No just leave it as is, taking the plating away would make it even worse with buffing every little trace of an engraving that is left under the plating. Besides , de plating, buffing, taking the horn apart, change all pads and felts, put it back together would probably cost as much as you can get once it sells.

Seriously keep it, and don't invest any more money that it needs if you decide to sell.

Where are you in the world? This may influence your hopes to sell because something tells me that where you live there aren't as many saxophones as in US or western or north EU.

Agree, I don't have any plans on selling this one, might keep it for a long time. Thanks on the de-lacquering advice. And yes, I live in the Philippines.

Does this year model Zephyr have any other similarities to the S20s? Bore size, keywork, etc?

 

[milandro]

Does this year model Zephyr have any other similarities to the S20s? Bore size, keywork, etc?

Zephyrs and Super 20 of this period are essentially almost identical minus some keywork differences and the neck being overslung.

But there is substantial difference in value even for the best examples of Zephyr compared to a Supoer 20 hence the definition of " poor man's Super 20".

This series shares the Keyguards and pantguards too

 

[JayeLID]

Actually...as soon as I saw the pinky table, I knew, Nathan...this is NOT a '62. It is later, like a '66... and appears to be one of the last Cleveland-made ones.

http://www.hnwhite.com/Serial Numbers.htm

So it is out of the 'sweet-spot' Zephyr era, but only due to the keywork revisions which HN White made very near their move from the Cleveland to Eastlake factory opened.

Zephyrs and Super 20 of this period are essentially almost identical minus some keywork differences and the neck being overslung.

While this is completely true....it is worth mention that those keywork differences are VERY significant.....as the ergos and key response of a late 60's (or later) S20 are much better than the late 60's Zephs.

So yes, body specs and neck tube specs are S20-ish, but the feel of an S20 is significantly different.

I love my Super 20 and I love the horns of this vintage ( Mine is 1970) but I would think that you Zephyr is better kept than sold, you are not going to make a great deal of money and it probably plays better than it looks.

Yes, that in a nutshell. Even with original finish, market value on one of these would be $850 tops in good playing shape (while the pre-keywork change Zeph would be more like $1200). Given the post-factory nickelplate, yours is probably only worth around $600 or so. But again, who cares ? As long as you are happy with it, enjoy. Although not of the highly-desireable era, they are still quality horns.

 

[lostcircuits]

Thanks for the input, that was what I was hoping to discuss also, the non original finish. Would it be better de-lacquered? Altho I';ve read its hard to remove nickel plating..

On the upside tho, I love how it plays. Very strong with a big voice.

Actually, the nickel plating is about as low maintenance as you can get, especially where you live (Philippines) silver would tarnish at an insane rate. Just make the mental leap to consider it a feature instead of an impurity and then look at the sun and be happy!

 

[Nathanates]

Actually...as soon as I saw the pinky table, I knew, Nathan...this is NOT a '62. It is later, like a '66... and appears to be one of the last Cleveland-made ones.

http://www.hnwhite.com/Serial Numbers.htm

So it is out of the 'sweet-spot' Zephyr era, but only due to the keywork revisions which HN White made very near their move from the Cleveland to Eastlake factory opened.

Zephyrs and Super 20 of this period are essentially almost identical minus some keywork differences and the neck being overslung.

While this is completely true....it is worth mention that those keywork differences are VERY significant.....as the ergos and key response of a late 60's (or later) S20 are much better than the late 60's Zephs.

So yes, body specs and neck tube specs are S20-ish, but the feel of an S20 is significantly different.

I love my Super 20 and I love the horns of this vintage ( Mine is 1970) but I would think that you Zephyr is better kept than sold, you are not going to make a great deal of money and it probably plays better than it looks.

Yes, that in a nutshell. Even with original finish, market value on one of these would be $850 tops in good playing shape (while the pre-keywork change Zeph would be more like $1200). Given the post-factory nickelplate, yours is probably only worth around $600 or so. But again, who cares ? As long as you are happy with it, enjoy. Although not of the highly-desireable era, they are still quality horns.

Thanks for the clarification on the serial number Jayelid, must have mixed it up when I first checked. That brings to light a lot of things about my sax, thanks! Yeah, that G# sure is a bit awkward compared to the more modern ones that I see.

 

[Nathanates]

Thanks for the input, that was what I was hoping to discuss also, the non original finish. Would it be better de-lacquered? Altho I';ve read its hard to remove nickel plating..

On the upside tho, I love how it plays. Very strong with a big voice.

Actually, the nickel plating is about as low maintenance as you can get, especially where you live (Philippines) silver would tarnish at an insane rate. Just make the mental leap to consider it a feature instead of an impurity and then look at the sun and be happy!

Yeap! I thought so too! Makes my Zeph a little bit more special. Will hold on to this one. I guess that was what the one who had it re-plated had in mind (climate / low maintenance).

 

[Grumps]

Just curious in regard to how nickel plate was determined for this horn by the photos. The flaky sort of corrosion around the top B key? Or other spots of interest?

 

[milandro]

Just curious in regard to how nickel plate was determined for this horn by the photos. The flaky sort of corrosion around the top B key? Or other spots of interest?

The color hue, silver looks different ( to me). I have had several nickel plated horn and they are cool and blueish while silver tend to have a warmer color.

It is m,y opinion that this is nickel plate.

And about the feel, yes I have had a brass version of this , very different from a S 20.

 

[AddictedToSax]

My first thought was nickel. Silver has a different sheen to it and reflect light differently. It also could be chromium. Nickel looks yellow when sitting alongside chrome. Who knows? From the attached pics above it would be hard to tell because a lot of it has to do with the light source and the white balance of the images.

Nickel on left/chrome on right

 

[donnc]

I'm sure those color samples are accurate, but they represent the appearance of the truly bare, new metal. The saxophone we're looking at here is in fine condition, but that plating has been on there for over half a century, and it has a dark gleam that has to be nickel (unless chrome looks like that, I wouldn't know.)

 

[JayeLID]

Chrome is almost never used on musical wind instruments where the parts can/should be bent, etc... or it shouldn't be, due to its brittleness. It would crack when put under typical dent rod/ball pressure.

 

[donnc]

Though it apparently has been used here and there on "brass" instruments, like euphonium, trombone slides - parts that aren't supposed to bend - and in principle it seems like it would be OK on a sax body. I have a vague recollection that an adequate chrome plate might be awkwardly thick for some plating situations.