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Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2009
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Discussion Starter #1

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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Bell is quite long, but it does still appear to be a Bb horn. What else can you tell us about it, and why should I rush out to get this over my 129s besides the stronger bell brace, higher bell flare, and earlier serial number?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It's a unique bari iteration, the only real redesign for american baritones since the "hackpdated" (hack-updated) added E and F ancient designs. The 129 is the exact same horn as a 1914 true tone bari except for the relocated low Bb tone hole, and the added high E and F (those tone holes are brazed over old upper bows from old horns wich hadn't high E and F). The 130 has a whole new main body design, neck and upper bow and crook design, and a better lower bow. It's the equivalent of the early Aristo tenor without the 156 stamp, a unique, transitional creature that was discontinued when Gus Buescher left the factory after pushing too hard for some innovations that the rather conservatibe board of the Buescher Band Inst. Co didn't allow him to pursue. But this horn was produced in very fewer number than those less than 20k serial span tenors, and coexisted with the 129.
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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Ok. I bought it. Let's see what I get.
 

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I assume this was the near-mythical "Custom Built" (which said so right on the bell).

Juan Ignacio, being a craftsman, weaves a proper shroud of legend and mystery around the whole thing.

I wonder, mi amigo, what do you think of the Conn 12M? I've played a '28 "Mulligan Model" or "Chu Bari" ( :lol: ) and a '31 12M, and found the latter a much improved horn. Certainly no refugee form the 'teens.

Remember, Conn had its own R & D team long before most makers. From 1928-'34 they redesigned the complete sax line, saving the tenor for last because it was so good to begin with :) .
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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Guess we'll find out. I'll post better pics when it gets here.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
A quest for a neck; which will certainly be far more rare than the horn.
no actually, any modern yani neck or selmer neck will do.
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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Let me see what I get. You may still get a chance, Grumps. :)

I have a couple Bundy necks available, or will this require Selmer Paris necks?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
130's have short neck no octave pip as modern baris. A cheaper neck than a selmer paris will do... if it's iffy it can get retapered. FWIW if you want out I'll buy that 130. I just didn't have room for my cousin to bring it this trip, he even ran out of space in his place to store all our sax-crap (his wife surely agrees with mine about how to name our endeavours)
 

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I assume this was the near-mythical "Custom Built" (which said so right on the bell).
I had never even heard of this with regards to the Buescher saxophones. It's interesting because in trumpets and cornets, Buescher had a range of "custom built" models; you had your standard "Aristocrat" and then several "Custom Built" variations, each with it's own model number.

They were not custom built in the sense that somebody made a special order to have a horn made just so to their own personal specs. I think Buescher made some of them as a matter of course & you could find them at a dealer's shop; others were available but only made for you if you ordered it.

And they do have "Custom Built" engraved on the bell!!
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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Well, this was clearly relacq'd at least once. The pictures were pretty foggy and it's clearly of uncertain condition. I'll share what I learn from it with the group when it gets here.
 

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maddenma, if you PM me your mail address I could send you scans of ads for the 129 and 139 (1935)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Oh it was 139 not 130... thanks ToreH ! you were the one that actually made me realize that it was a whole different creature. You have one of your own, don't you?
 

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No 139 in my stable just a very plain silver plated US engraved bigB 129 - but I've sampled a nice 1935 ad for it.

Interesting to see that the new developed 139 came first (1935 for a short periode ?) and then the 129 (old model with new engraving) came after.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
it's like the tenors evolution. The Aristocrat series I and early series II (Art deco and Big B's) also followed this trend. The 1935 new designed horns ended up being a transition when they redesigned the whole line to accomodate the 400's. If you look at them they share similarities such as improved necks, wide band connection rings between main body joints, beefed up mechanisms, better ergos. I think that they must have had an awful lot of older parts and at some point during WWII with all the brass restrictions and factories having to turn into military purveyors, they ended up taking the easy way out of that mess. Sad for us Buescher lovers, good for the French Selmer company that succeeded in tearing down the entire american saxophone manufacturing after the WWII. THey took the bombing, America exhausted and detrimentaly damaged many leading industries on the huge war effort. Politics.... :faceinpalm: the world would be a much better place if ran by musicians, painters, artists in general. [/rant]
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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I'm looking forward to the pics (and the horn).

BTW, I have 2.5 mid-50's 129s -- one is playable currently, one is undergoing a serious restoration, and the other one just gave its life for parts (hence the 1/2). Presumably there's some parts that will work here off the 1/2 129.
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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Ok. Got the horn today. You should see this 139. Very different horn. Can't even tell it's the same manufacturer except for the spatula -- which btw, has the same articulated G# mechanism (as it's commonly referred to) as on my tenor and alto that you'd expect (the 129's don't) -- though set more at an angle that you'd find on a Selmer or more modern horn as opposed to 90 degrees to the body that is common on other period 'crats. Perhaps the bari version of the early 400? Certainly seem to be some TH&C elements to it, although most of it looks like an early 'crat I on steroids.

Compared to the 129, all the rods are MUCH thicker and it has an exquisitely elaborate octave key mechanism. It's had at least one relacquer and perhaps a second, but you can tell it has very different and elaborate engraving. Says "The Buescher" and "Custom Built" on the bell. Also a very different mechanism for the Eb trill key and most of the r/h stack has an articulated mechanism. Bore at the bottom bow is visibly larger as is the bell diameter, although the flair is roughly the same dimension.

It's the bracing that really gets your attention though. Very different from the 129 and much more robust at the bell and the crook. You'd have to run over the crook with a truck to get any either of the upper bows to change position. They'd be flat, but they'd still be aligned.

It's not playable in current form, but has all its springs and all but the high F snaps. Thankfully it DOES have the original neck after all. The seller indicated in the eBay ad that it didn't, but it was stuck way up in the body of the horn where you normally find a stray mouthpiece. :) Good thing too, as I've never seen a neck that short and I'm not sure I would have found a workable replacement, nor the dimensions to create a new one. It's easily an inch shorter than the original TT (and later 'crat) bari necks. Many of the key cups have dents which is a bit disturbing, but hopefully those can be coaxed back out. Thumb hook has taken a blow and closed up a bit. Looks like a large version of the TH&C thumb hook.

A few pics attached.
 
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