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Headjoint cork alternative
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Agreed, apart from fitting issues.
Flutes vary significantly in diameter, at least in the location of the left O-ring, which would need to be considered.
O-rings, used industrially, are normally in a groove that has more width than the thickness of the O-ring. Among other things, this allows for the O-ring to 'fatten' as it is crushed during installation. I see no provision for this.
Flutes vary significantly in diameter, at least in the location of the left O-ring, which would need to be considered.
O-rings, used industrially, are normally in a groove that has more width than the thickness of the O-ring. Among other things, this allows for the O-ring to 'fatten' as it is crushed during installation. I see no provision for this.
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That looks like one of Bob Ogren's stoppers,
There are many such beasts out there. Bigio, Dyna, Guo, even some old flutes where techs have make-shifted something similar.
The principles are all similar. The reasons as to why some people perceive a difference and others do not has been discussed as nauseum in other places.
Why have people done this? MY OPINION, is that it is simply because they can.
I don't think there is a lot of consideration of all the properties involved, and many are not developing similar things with that in mind. It's become a "keep up with the Joneses" type of development.
There are so many variables that come into play in the area that is least understood on the flute when you consider this type of stopper.
Joe B
There are many such beasts out there. Bigio, Dyna, Guo, even some old flutes where techs have make-shifted something similar.
The principles are all similar. The reasons as to why some people perceive a difference and others do not has been discussed as nauseum in other places.
Why have people done this? MY OPINION, is that it is simply because they can.
I don't think there is a lot of consideration of all the properties involved, and many are not developing similar things with that in mind. It's become a "keep up with the Joneses" type of development.
There are so many variables that come into play in the area that is least understood on the flute when you consider this type of stopper.
Joe B
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Wouldn't solid brass add enough weight to affect the balance of the flute??JButky said:
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...when all is said and done, there's more said than done...JButky said:
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A solid brass crown on one of my flutes. This is for Headjoint I made for my old late 70's Vintage, heavy wall muramatsu, (now prepped as "Frankenflute")VESPASIAN said:
I still have the original headjoint, but the one I use, has a different taper, is thin walled, Riser height leaning towards the high side, traditional cork assembly but the heavy crown.
In this case the heavy crown does balance things out and has the effect I was looking for. So it was the obvious choice.
Joe B
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Another consideration is that cork is a far more rigid material than nitrile (presumably) rubber. Their damping & elastomeric properties of these materials are quite different. The idea is (presumably, but maybe not!!) that there is a rigid item defining the end of the air column. I doubt a couple of 0-rings provides as much rigidity as firmly installed cork.
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This one looks like acetyl to me, which is much more rigid than cork (Fred Lamberson and Runyon make mouthpieces out of it). Presumably the position is rigidly set by the threaded stud hanging out and the o-rings just seal.
...on the other hand, there is nothing 'broke' about my flutes, so why bother...
...on the other hand, there is nothing 'broke' about my flutes, so why bother...
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The white part may well be acetal (with an "a").
I was writing about the O-ring material, compared with natural cork in a traditional flute end.
I was writing about the O-ring material, compared with natural cork in a traditional flute end.
I can identify at least one seriously detrimental effect of at least one of these nylon/ O-ring cork plug dealies; on a student/intermediate Yamaha (YTS-481 II) the EBay special chops-in-a-box replacement for her cork turned out to have a metal plate on the front that was just slightly larger than the inner diameter of the (silver) headjoint at the 17.3mm mark. The end result is a distinct "ring" of bulging metal around the otherwise perfect headjoint where the end of the stopper is inside the flute. She had lubed it up well with tuning slide grease and used her flute cleaning rod to push it into the proper location. She claims she just pushed firmly but not hard- in any case, while it probably will have no effect on the sound, the stopper sure wasn't going in any farther should it be needed and the ring really upsets her. Can't say I blame her.
I chucked up the stopper in a bench motor and held a file to the front disc's side while it was spinning and now it fits fine- but the ring promises to be an absolute bear to remove. The metal is expanded, the area is tapering, and the back end of the embouchure plate covers part of the bulge. I believe the cosmetic evidence will probably be permanent.
It is air tight, ought to last forever, and certainly still plays (just fine as far as I can tell)- but in the owner's eyes her new very-expensive-to-her flute is ruined.
Yamaha is narrower than some- but hardly an abnormal size. I'd think this would have been a problem with many combinations of owner installation and flutes. No idea if it's a one off or a common problem- I'll look for others and report if found.
I chucked up the stopper in a bench motor and held a file to the front disc's side while it was spinning and now it fits fine- but the ring promises to be an absolute bear to remove. The metal is expanded, the area is tapering, and the back end of the embouchure plate covers part of the bulge. I believe the cosmetic evidence will probably be permanent.
It is air tight, ought to last forever, and certainly still plays (just fine as far as I can tell)- but in the owner's eyes her new very-expensive-to-her flute is ruined.
Yamaha is narrower than some- but hardly an abnormal size. I'd think this would have been a problem with many combinations of owner installation and flutes. No idea if it's a one off or a common problem- I'll look for others and report if found.
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"The end result is a distinct "ring" of bulging metal around the otherwise perfect headjoint "
And a very difficult-if-not-impossible distortion to remove.
And a very difficult-if-not-impossible distortion to remove.
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My old flute teacher/tech used beeswax as a kind of sealer.
Anyone else heard of that?
Anyone else heard of that?
I can't tell you how sorry I am to read your post.
Having spent literally five hours, even at my negligible shop rate a substantial investment in time, I have made rather little progress. I placed the headjoint over a suitable mandrel and after concluding that no matter how smooth faced the dent hammer I'd wind up really distorting the geometry I went at it by slowly rotating a curved burnisher with a thin strip of Teflon sheeting affixed longitudinally (parallel to the blade which I held parallel to the ring) over the raised ring while applying quite a bit of pressure. In order to ensure I kept the pressure on the ridge line and nowhere else I wound up taking off my glasses (nearsighted) and holding my face about five inches away from the blankety blank thing. The ridge is now down to the point where, after a carful hand application of metal polish to the area, you can see it if you look for it, but it doesn't jump out at you were you not expecting it. That's as good as it's liable to get as far as I can see. The poor kid; I doubt it'll affect the acoustics to any degree of significance but to her it'll be just like a forehead zit; she'll see it as a glowing neon badge of shame calling out to all. In it's own way, sort of heartbreaking.
I, on this one occasion, had really hoped that you'd weigh in with one of your patented, "You moron- this is how it's done right," zingers!
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Since it is a sterling head, it can be fixed. Send me a photo of the area and if I can do it, no charge. If it is a bigger problem, I have a guy.....
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