[milandro]

Just as matter of interest. I assume that you have played one and make an assessment based on an actual experience, and that you deem the price a rip-off on that basis.

No, I haven't played one, but the point I made before and several times already is not that I thave any doubt that it is a great horn.

My problem is with the claim that this is an Ishimori " design" as opposed to Ishimori having commissioned saxophones from a Taiwanese company (they don't dispute they are made in Taiwan) with the addition of a couple of ( more or less meaningful.......most of it is absolutely mambo jambo as Jaye pointed out ) features and their name on it and sold it to a ridiculous price for the privilege of having a special Ishimori thumbrests, a soldered bell, a silver lyre attachment and a special bell engraving .............compared to an identical saxophone costing as little as 1/4 to 1/2 the price.

I know very well that there are many horns " made in Taiwan" sold by companies throughout the world but none are charging such outrageous amounts of mark up!

My problem is that one should substantiate claims of the " design" unicity in order to command that kind of money.But apparently that is not the case!

There are many horns made in different Taiwanese company and they certainly aren't the same and the diatribe involving " My horn is the same as P.Mauriat" fills pages and pages on SOTW but I don't want to go there!

I don't want to know which other saxophones are made at the same plant where these are made! I just want to point out that to get 6000$ you need more than a few hundred $ in parts and work (and both at cost are much less than that) for a horn that essentially is the same as another but cheaper one.

If there is more than those simple and more or less useful customisation ( and I would leave the marketing words for what they are for anybody to judge them!!!) would anybody tell us where this considerable extra beef is gone other than in the ample pockets of the shop?

When a car or computer company has something outsourced they outsource only the making of an original design and they have been footing the bill of developing something special and unique anyway.

Did Ishimori design a new body tube, a new neck? A different placement of the toneholes? ? Who are " Designers" at a company that is essentially only a musical instruments shop?

 

[LiAm84]

These tenors feature the Selmer BA/SBA style octave neck octave key like the new Viking M40 tenors. Hmmmmmm...

Yep, the viking M40 looks very similar to my Ishimori. Same neck, keywork, dark lacquer, engraving pattern etc...

http://viking-instruments.com/?products=viking-legend-series-acoustic-balance-m40-tenor-dark-lacquer

As much as it pains me to admit it, with the split bell key guards and additional engraving the Viking actually looks better and cheaper

 

[14470]

Yep, the viking M40 looks identical to my Ishimori. Same neck, keywork, dark lacquer, engraving pattern etc...

http://viking-instruments.com/?products=viking-legend-series-acoustic-balance-m40-tenor-dark-lacquer

As much as it pains me to admit it, with the split bell key guards and additional engraving the Viking actually looks better and cheaper

You never know whether you would have liked the way it plays as much...and probably best not to try.

Now if they could just make a silver plated version with the sunburst engraving and black pads instead, I might buy one just for the looks. Someone here on SOTW has a BA like that and that was truly something to behold.

 

[milandro]

I am sure that if you ask nicely, for a mere 4000$ more, perhaps that can be arranged..

 

[14470]

I am sure that if you ask nicely, for a mere 4000$ more, perhaps that can be arranged..

Feisty spirits 'eh?

 

[milandro]

no I believe that if one is a devout follower of his patron saint, St. Dismas, he will, in all probability, be always we needing the patronage of St. Dismas

:bluewink:

 

[Roger Nordling]

And then again the Mauriat 66R looks like a clone too... or am I hallucinating?

I have not played one but by the looks it reminds me of the P.Mauriat 66 line of saxes.

 

[bigmoist]

You are not hallucinating...the Viking is 1950,less than 1/2 the price of the other two. Probably made by the same people at the same place. But without the "new York Tokyo Paris" stamp on the bell.

 

[milandro]

well, as they said in another thread in Yogi Berra Style: " they are all the same.......... unless they are different" :twisted:

 

[Buck Laughlin]

...the Viking is 1950,less than 1/2 the price of the other two.

Even less than that right now . . . http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?171968-Viking-Instruments-New-Years-Sale!!!!!!

 

[JayeLID]

xxxxxxxxxxxCollateral remark delete xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Do you think Ishimori designed the plug, too....??????

Do you think their plug design adds to the 'vintage' tonal quality of the horn....?

 

[milandro]

well, I thought it was an endplug...........:bluewink::faceinpalm:[rolleyes]

 

[Currawong]

In all fairness, saxophones seem to be expensive in Japan. If you look up the Yamaha shop in the Ginza [URL="http://www.yamahamusic.jp/shop/ginza/inst/06/341] you will notice the manufacturer's recommended price for a YTS 82z is Y420,000, a YTS 875EX is Y504,000, the T992 goes for Y513,000 and the Selmer Serie III for Y546,000. I don't know to what extent discounts are now available, but I noticed that the Ishimori site offers them.

Whether the Ishimori is good value in Japan would be for the locals to decide, but for many of us it would require something identifiably special to make us interested.

 

[BaraBara]

Well the yen is super high vs most of the currencies right now so from abroad everything looks (even more) expensive for sure... Then european saxes should become cheaper in Japan too... in theory at least...

 

[JASA80]

Hey all
just wondering if anyone has tried any of the latest batch of Ishimori Woodstone's? I really don't want to continue the debate about their lineage - i heard that they received some promising buzz from this year's Namm with a new Eric Alexander model in the pipeline and they have a silver alloy (mm) model which I've heard sounds pretty sweet- so anyone been playing these lately or been to the Ishimori store in Tokyo to try these out?

 

[andre251]

I played one of those at Shanghai convention last year. I know for sure it was woodstone, and am about half sure it was vintage model. I recall it being a ridiculously good modern horn. Better than most, even some in big four. That is a very deep and bold statement, I know. I was turned off by the very high price. I think at the conference it was like 7 thousand. (Every name brand was much more expensive there)

I was alto shopping so barely played any tenors. Woodstone, Rampone R1 jazz and a Yanagisawa 9930 were the only tenors I played.

 

[tranesonic]

I bought the one that Liam84 was selling. I've only had it for 3 or 4 weeks but played it on two gigs last week and it was beautiful. I've only ever played 4 vintage Selmer tenors in 35 years ( 2 old MKVIs and 2 SBAs ) and I've never got on with any other makes. Sometimes a Yanagisawa will feel and sound pretty good but the Ishimori is very different I think. It's not the same as the SBA that I've been playing for the last 18 years or so but then I wouldn't expect it to be. To me the horn has its own sound and feel and I like both. I was intending to take the Selmer with me just in case it wasn't working out on the gig but in the end I didn't and I didn't miss the Selmer at all. Time will tell how long this will continue of course but so far it's holding its own. ( NB. I can't say that this is one of the "latest batch" though, I think it's around 4 years old so presumably an early one? )

 

[JASA80]

Nice info guys -thanks. I think they are now selling for between 4 and 5,000 USD depending on the finish direct from the website. Of course then there's shipping to go along with that and a possible import charge- I don't know of anyone having dealership rights in the world. I'd love to try one. Word is they are similar to the Viking saxes- ok but it would be interesting to play them side by side. They are definately a beautiful looking horn. I'm intrigued by the satin silver and mirror finish (a bit like the sss selmers) and as I was told by Ishimori- the mm which is a silver alloy and heavier than the brass saxes.

 

[Dr G]

There's some renewed interest in this tenor now that Eric Alexander is associated with them in the design of a signature model.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...tage-Tenor-Sax&p=2462952&posted=1#post2462952

 

[Rich Maraday]

Spot on LateNiteSax!!!!! I have just looked at Viking M58 pictures, and they look exactly identical, except may be for the neck octave key saddle....
http://viking-instruments.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/VIKING-SHOTS-81311-0061.jpg

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