[Al Stevens]

For the past two days I have been unable to make low C, B, and Bb speak reliably on the tenor. I can play down to them starting on a higher note. But I cannot play the notes themselves by starting with the note or by coming down from some intervals. And when I play down to the low notes, I have to play them loudly; can't get soft subtones.

This is not a problem with leaks. I have four tenors. One day I could play those notes on all four; the next day I could not play the notes on any of them.

This is not a mouthpiece problem. The problem persists on all sizes and shapes.

This is not a reed problem. Reeds that worked a few days ago do not work now, and, of course, I have tried lots of reeds and tried softer reeds, too.

I have no problems with the rest of the horn's range.

The only thing I can blame is my chops. This is really frustrating. What to do? Besides sell all my saxes, that is.

 

[BobbyC]

Have you been playing lots recently?
Perhaps your chops are a bit tired and just need a little rest..

If your 100% sure it's not the horn, try soaking the reed for a while and carefully check it's placement on the MPC.
If it's a bit skewed, that might cause your problem.

 

[Reedsplinter]

Didn't you just get a brand new horn?

1) As Bobby said, you've been playing the new axe too much: lay off for a day and see what happens.

2) The Taiwanese are infecting these horns with Taiwanese-Chops-Collapsing Flu. It spreads from chickens to Selmer Flamingos to other saxophones. Get thee quarantined at once!

 

[gary]

Al, do you need to get back to long tones? Also, how's the tension in your throat? Could it have increased recently without your being aware of it?

 

[saxphil]

Al you have been shedding full tilt A Super 20,a Maurone that plays just like your Ref 54.Back and forth,back and forth
Take a break

 

[Al Stevens]

I think most of you are right. My chops are fatigued. I've been shedding the new Maurone and the old Super 20 for days now.

Based on what was said here, I just played some test tones and sensed air leaking out of my mouth at the left side of the embouchure. I had difficulty stopping the leakage. That's with the Barone metal piece. (The air doesn't leak with a Tenney Link HR piece, which is wider, but everything feels tired.)

The horn isn't leaking; the player is.

I need to get my enthusiasm under control and take a day or two off. This isn't going to be easy. Whatever it takes.

I'll report back. Thanks all.

 

[saxphil]

You're too funny Al.We would all be fried given all those horns at once.
A kid in a candy store.

 

[Reedsplinter]

But "chops collapsing" is an image to conjure with. I think if you had all your teeth pulled and didn't put in your false choppers, then. . . .:binky:

 

[Al Stevens]

"Chops collapsing" is a trumpet player thing. Total atrophy of the muscles that form the embouchure. Usually irreversible. Lou Columbo moved his trumpet chops to one side of his mouth and learned to play all over again after his chops collapsed.

Hmm. Maybe that's why Kenny G plays out of the side of his mouth.

 

[JL]

Hey Al, yeah it may just be fatigue. But here's another thing to consider: If you're switching back and forth a lot between those different tenors, it may be having an effect on your embouchure. You get used to one horn, then have to readjust for the other one. At some point maybe (just maybe) your mind/embouchure is getting "confused" or short-circuiting and suddenly you aren't making the adjustment.

I have to make a pretty major adjustment going from my Buescher Aristocrat tenor to the MK VI tenor. The VI requires a different approach, especially on the low notes. The low notes speak much more easily on the Buescher, so switching either way requires an adjustment. I don't know if this is what's happening with you or not, but you might try just sticking to one horn for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

 

[Agent27]

Hmm. Maybe that's why Kenny G plays out of the side of his mouth.

That would be assuming he previously had chops.

 

[Grumps]

...I just played some test tones and sensed air leaking out of my mouth at the left side of the embouchure. I had difficulty stopping the leakage.

Might want to check the table of that piece and make sure it's flat. Was trying a metal Berg out recently and had the side air leak. When I pressed the table flat against the bar of my mouthpiece gauge, I could see light shining through between the table and bar as it wiggled back and forth. Playing a piece like that will also wear your lip out in no time.

 

[martinm5862]

I think most of you are right. My chops are fatigued. I've been shedding the new Maurone and the old Super 20 for days now.

Based on what was said here, I just played some test tones and sensed air leaking out of my mouth at the left side of the embouchure. I had difficulty stopping the leakage. That's with the Barone metal piece. (The air doesn't leak with a Tenney Link HR piece, which is wider, but everything feels tired.)

Reeds can change from day to day because of change in humidity levels. I tested this theory by measuring a few reeds over a period of one week using a micrometer. I would try some new reeds, maybe slightly softer or readjusting the reeds you are using.

 

[Al Stevens]

Update:

It is, I believe now, a combination of factors. I took yesterday off and gave my chops a rest. Today I intentionally started with the mark vi, the horn that has always been there when I need it. I could play it without problems. Huge sigh of relief.

Before wearing myself out again, I turned to the new Barone. Same mouthpiece and reed. Problem persists. Can't hit a low C without stepping down to it. What is does is try to play C2, which sounds like a honk. Back to the the vi. No problem.

Off to the tech. The Barone is leaking. In places that would cause that problem he says. And others. He can't figure how I could play it at all. My fault, Phil told me to expect that. I left it with the tech.

As near as I can tell, I wore myself out two days running trying to make the Barone speak. With totally rested chops, it plays. But after a short time blowing, it doesn't. By the time I picked up the other horns, my chops were chopped liver.

Now I sense a bit of reluctance on the part of the ref 54 to play those dreaded low notes. Probably a tiny leak. A confluence of unlikely coincidence.

This has been a lesson learned.

But my sax corner looks less elegant without that gold-plated beauty on its stand.

Does any of this make sense? Have I totally wasted everyone's time here?

 

[saxphil]

We're all with you Al.Looking forward to more from you when you get the leaks fixed.Is the Ref being checked as well?

 

[Reedsplinter]

Does Phil do any sort of set-up on these horns? When you say "he told you to expect this," what do you mean exactly? Just curious, as I'm watching reactions to these saxes as they appear.

 

[Al Stevens]

Is the Ref being checked as well?

It goes in when I get the Barone back. I just played a set of tunes on it, and it seemed okay, but I think the action is a little too stiff and every now and then the low notes would resist me.

 

[Al Stevens]

Does Phil do any sort of set-up on these horns?

You'd have to ask Phil what his long-term plans are for preparing the horns for sale.

When you say "he told you to expect this," what do you mean exactly?

Exactly what I said. He said I should expect to have some leaks fixed by a tech. His son had problems playing it, although Phil did not. I did not either at first until I realized it was wearing my chops down.

Just curious, as I'm watching reactions to these saxes as they appear.

It seems like the whole board is watching, but few of us have stepped up to the plate and bought one. My guess is that the price won't be able to stay as low as I got it for. If he has to pay a tech to prepare every sax, his costs go up. Usually you figure on needing a new sax looked over anyway, if just to correct anything that happens during shipment.

Even with whatever I pay the tech for the once-over, I stole this horn. It is beautiful, and it's a player, and it's way below what a comparable new horn costs, even a used horn.

And, if Phil's venture doesn't pan out, think of the collectible value. I'll have one of a very few genuine, bona fide, gold-plated Phil Barone saxes. With the proper verbage, I can create an aura and mystique that will surround this horn and make collectors drool to own it. Not that I'd ever sell it, of course.

 

[Reedsplinter]

And, if Phil's venture doesn't pan out, think of the collectible value. I'll have one of a very few genuine, bona fide, gold-plated Phil Barone saxes. With the proper verbage, I can create an aura and mystique that will surround this horn and make collectors drool to own it. Not that I'd ever sell it, of course.

Is this part of the verbiage?

look at 'im go! he's already softening us up!

Thanks, Al.

 

[Lenny]

Frankly every single horn I ever bought whether it came from world famous "Roberto's" or any other of a dozen places with big reputations that claimed that their horns were perfectly set up before sending out - They all were leaking!. Some were hemoraging and in some cases it was minor but not a one was set up perfectly. So I kind of credit Phil with being honest.

It never cost much for my tech to get them right - usually only $25 - $50max or so but I began to price it into just getting a horn to try. Of course my tech Lee Krampka is a fantastic repairman and he sees leaks that other people miss. But i could always feel what he saw.

- Lenny