I do. I always have. I've always played Mk VIs without it. Lately, though, I've been playing a Selmer USA Model 164 tenor (about 1989) which has the F#. This thing irritates the heck out of me and I never use it. It has a lot of linkage, etc. and adds weight. The linkage increases the width of the horn and the rod protector/guide gets in the way when I play alto/tenor duals. The rod guide has been slipping lately, jamming the top side key open unless I constantly fiddle with it. Every time you grab the horn it squeezes that rod and moves the key on the tone hole, which can't be good for maintaining the seal. Then Friday night's outdoor gig got rained on, and in the rush to put stuff away, that guide got jammed down so hard that the F# key was open - which I didn't realize until I started to warm up for Saturday's gig. No problem, I carry screwdrivers, etc., so I just fixed it. So, at the end of that gig, a lady tripped on the dance floor and fell into our set-up, knocking both my Selmer USA horns, alto and tenor, off the stand. This time the only damage was to the tenor, and it was the F# rod that took the hit, bending it so the key was off the tone hole. I just got through fixing it, discovering it needed a new pad, too. What I really want to do is to take a Dremel with a cut-off wheel and remove the whole mess, then make some kind of plug for the tone hole. I might just do that some day.
Hate High F#?
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I also don't like high F# keys. This seems like a new trend here. It just seems like something else that you have to worry about.
The point has been brought up that it may be helpful on certain classical passages. I personally think the placement of the high F# key is EXTREMELY awkward. Even if using it would be more "ergonomic" in some passages, just by habit, I'd play F# with altissimo fingerings. It's really not that hard. I'm still not sure if the tonehole has any affect on SOUND, but I just don't like it.
The point has been brought up that it may be helpful on certain classical passages. I personally think the placement of the high F# key is EXTREMELY awkward. Even if using it would be more "ergonomic" in some passages, just by habit, I'd play F# with altissimo fingerings. It's really not that hard. I'm still not sure if the tonehole has any affect on SOUND, but I just don't like it.
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I get what you're saying. I have been playing an alto with a High F# for about 10 years, before that, I played a yama yas-23, obviously no high f# key. It actually took some adjustment to get used to the raised extra rod on my selmer. I don't know why, perhaps it's a mental thing, but when I have played, for example, a friend's mark VI alto, I actually sound the same, but the horn feels cleaner, it's hard to put in words, but somehow there is something that goes with the no f# thing. It isn't sound related though.
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Hate High F#?
My dog especially hates it. Who wouldn't? Sound wise it's too irritating to the ears.
My dog especially hates it. Who wouldn't? Sound wise it's too irritating to the ears.
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I direct you to my post.
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=60745
there is a link to pictures also.
Anthony
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=60745
there is a link to pictures also.
Anthony
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That's a cool thread SplitTony; hard to believe I missed it. I've played a lot of horns with the key, (Keilwerths, Yamahas, Selmers, Yangisawas, etc.) and without, (Kings, Bueschers, MK Vi's, Conns) and far and away prefer no altissimo F# key. Hate it. I've settled on an old VI tenor as my main horn and, BTW, my F# sounds fine to me and my cat, Saxmusiclover...
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My VI is my main horn. Absolutely love it!wersax said:That's a cool thread SplitTony; hard to believe I missed it. I've played a lot of horns with the key, (Keilwerths, Yamahas, Selmers, Yangisawas, etc.) and without, (Kings, Bueschers, MK Vi's, Conns) and far and away prefer no altissimo F# key. Hate it. I've settled on an old VI tenor as my main horn and, BTW, my F# sounds fine to me and my cat, Saxmusiclover...
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Strange thing is... Ever since this topic has been talked about here on SOTW of late, I've been using the high F# more. These threads keep reminding me that key is even there to use. Before, I'd not even think about it. I say keep it if ya' got it. That's me... Always going against the grain
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Imitation is the highest form of flattery.JL said:
It's all SplitTony's fault anyway.
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Well EEXXCCCUUUSSEEE me, but please indulge my stupidity and tell me when did this hatred of the high F# begin? Seems to me all you guys didn't mind it too much when you tried out the horn and bought it. Then it became "too heavy" , "too stuffy" or whatever. I'm with tjontheroad. I use mine. I guess I was under the wrong assumption that the guy that designed and built the horn kinda knew a little more about it than me. Wrong again. Can't stay any longer.....gotta scoot, time to oil my high F# key.
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Too heavy???
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I for one, DanF, just don't need the altissimo F# key. I'm fine without it. What, you can't play F# without it?....;^)...darylDanF said:Well EEXXCCCUUUSSEEE me, but please indulge my stupidity and tell me when did this hatred of the high F# begin? Seems to me all you guys didn't mind it too much when you tried out the horn and bought it. Then it became "too heavy" , "too stuffy" or whatever. I'm with tjontheroad. I use mine. I guess I was under the wrong assumption that the guy that designed and built the horn kinda knew a little more about it than me. Wrong again. Can't stay any longer.....gotta scoot, time to oil my high F# key.
I almost never use the high F# key to play an F#, but I do use it all the time for altissimo. It allows for a lot of alternate fingerings to simplify the tricky fingering patterns. But, at the same time I do realise everyone's points for hating it. It is sometimes convenient, but a horn without one just seems to speak better. I guess I am gray on this one. ~.^
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I have had a lot of problems with the high F# leaking, and I don't use it because I can't get it in tune using that fingering. If I had a horn worth spending money on, I would get it removed.
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Not only that, but Sonny Rollins plays a Selmer with high F#! We have pictures to prove it! :twisted:DanF said:Well EEXXCCCUUUSSEEE me, but please indulge my stupidity and tell me when did this hatred of the high F# begin? Seems to me all you guys didn't mind it too much when you tried out the horn and bought it. Then it became "too heavy" , "too stuffy" or whatever. I'm with tjontheroad. I use mine. I guess I was under the wrong assumption that the guy that designed and built the horn kinda knew a little more about it than me. Wrong again. Can't stay any longer.....gotta scoot, time to oil my high F# key.
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High F#?
Personally, I can't see why people dislike the f# key :| . I've wanted a sax with the f# key ever since I got to play my sax. It really helps when you get into altisimo notes. Of course, there are ways to play high F# without that key. I have actually mastered one of them, almost , I had to find a way to play it since I don't have the key in particular. Who knows, maybe if I get a sax wit that key I'll dislike it too. Maybe.:?
- The Saxonator
Personally, I can't see why people dislike the f# key :| . I've wanted a sax with the f# key ever since I got to play my sax. It really helps when you get into altisimo notes. Of course, there are ways to play high F# without that key. I have actually mastered one of them, almost
, I had to find a way to play it since I don't have the key in particular. Who knows, maybe if I get a sax wit that key I'll dislike it too. Maybe.:?- The Saxonator
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Saxonator, the F# key might give you some other fingering options for altissimo, but won't make it easier to hit notes in the altissimo range. If you are having trouble hitting the high F# without the key, you still need some work before you'll be hitting any higher altissimo. The F# is the first note, excepting front F, in the altissimo range and is by far the easiest one to hit (without the F# key). It provides a "bridge" into the altissimo range, so you would do well to learn it without the high F# key in any case. Don't worry about it, if your present horn lacks the high F# key. You don't need it.The Saxonator said:
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