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Medical personnel wear visors with their masks mainly to protect the eyes. The only defense your respiratory system has against aerosols is masks. Aerosols are a significant mode of spread for the virus. To offer an irrelevant supplementary protection as a solution for a situation in which the main risk is not addressed is dangerously misleading.
 

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My take? Anything to make a buck. Besides that, wear that on a gig (what are those?) and you'll just look like a dork.
 
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Absolutely

there is no doubt that people are using their creativity and the first to be addressed are masks as we’ve seen .

To date the best things I have seen are really expensive and of course don’t protect a lot. This is an example of “ valve” ( take this with a substantial pinch of salt!) where you could fit your mouthpiece. There would be substantial leakage but your nose “ may” not take a great deal of particles ( viral load is also important here).

Note that , at the very least, this valve (which of course leaks and the saxophone does too) is applied to a N95 mask... which is better than other solutions.


In future there will be a whole new industry born out of this " New World “ we live in (because the New World is not and will never be anything like the old one).

There is certainly a need to cope with the new situation and we certainly will, but a face shield like the one above is just window dressing.

Fortunately, unlike other gizmos, anything medical or making medical claims needs, generally, to undergo a vetting process.

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This new cottage industry needs to be regulated. Even if medical claims are not explicit they are certainly implied. Someone with some sense needs to get some legislation going to protect people from their failed assumptions because there are those who will exploit that weakness.
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
This new cottage industry needs to be regulated. Even if medical claims are not explicit they are certainly implied. Someone with some sense needs to get some legislation going to protect people from their failed assumptions because there are those who will exploit that weakness.
Exactly Phil, and joining Milandro’s excellent points of necessity being the mother of invention with yours, I think a year of this proves that people have to be very careful when considering using something like this.
I’m very skeptical that no real caveat or a more pronounced disclaimer wasn’t offered. Studied and proven mitigation is the standard of approving such devices. Might be a good idea too if Rovner actually instructed the user to use a regular face mask with the device when not playing. Yes it’s a lot to adjust quickly but that’s where we are.
 

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the problem with this “ cottage industry” and any other small scale industry (even the musical one) is that medical testing is way beyond the means.

Even if a product could be devised that it may be as safe as it may conceivably be ( again you are exhaling through an instrument and that is that), licensing it would make it cost so much that it will never happen.

The product above sought patenting.

I am not sure that anyone would grant it, in reality the only patentable thing is the valve but its use in a pandemic context is impossible to “prove”.

My guess is that , like the many food supplements which are more or less implying all manner of medical claims, they would stay far and away from making such claims because that would make their sales automatically impossible.


Listen to their employee in the video at the end

“ while we aren’t doctors and we aren’t scientists .... and while the space shield is NOT a medical grade solution to 100% protect you from illness....we HOPE that is another tool in your toolbox that will help you doing what you love and keep you safe..."

 

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Wisdom and fear are not the same thing. They are not even in the same class.
 

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True. I'm not sure what you are trying to say with that though, if anything. You might need to explain like I'm 5. Mask is better than visor. Mask and sax don't go together. Anything is better than nothing. Hence, visor good. Staying at home best.
See Serafino's reply, he explains in detail what I meant.
 

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The virus doesn’t care about your comfort. It is simply looking for a home. Science says you are not safer even if you do feel safer. So this device, in fact, leads people to take unnecessary risks due to its failure to truly deliver.
Well said and I mostly agree. If you let safety measures affect your behaviour, you indeed undermine their effectiveness.

Feelings do not have direct effect on any of this, neither I think Science approves the words you put in it's mouth. It is good to make a clear distinction between A) safety measures and their effectiveness B) human behaviour C) interaction between the two. All relevant points to discuss and strive to understand, as separate things.

There is no such thing as complete safety; everything exists on a scale of safetyness. That applies to live music as well as grocery shopping and dayjobs. Official entities and scientists are understandably reluctant to call something "more safe", because that is easily translated to "safe" by the listener. But if we are going to do an inherently unsafe activity anyway, it is better to do it in a slightly less unsafe manner, even if it's still not "safe".

People felt safe when they put filters on cigarettes. Does that make smoking a good idea?
I smoke too, hand rolled and long filters for taste and comfort. I take great care to dispose used filters responsibly, nasty stuff! Short filters do not provide enough gripping area to hold the cig. No filter tastes awful. Like many things in life, I don't think anyone believes they are good for the health, or good idea in general, but I say they do good for the soul ;)
 
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Medical personnel wear visors with their masks mainly to protect the eyes. The only defense your respiratory system has against aerosols is masks. Aerosols are the primary mode of spread for the virus. To offer an irrelevant supplementary protection as a solution for a situation in which the main risk is not addressed is dangerously misleading.
See Serafino's reply, he explains in detail what I meant.
Fair enough!

My country's "official" COVID info says that droplets are the primary means of spreading, aerosols secondary, though.

The novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) primarily spreads by droplets when an infected person coughs or sneezes
......snip......
Coronavirus can also be transmitted by air, in the form of small aerosols.
From THL, Finnish research and development institute operating under the Ministry of Social Affairs and Health.

Transmission and incubation period of coronavirus - Infectious diseases and vaccinations - THL

I'm not someone to argue about the merits of various conflicting sources, however. Our health authority may or may not have it right. Feel free to inform if there is more current research!
 

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View attachment 39342


Aerosols and droplets travel furthest when coughing or sneezing, but we still produce them when singing, speaking or even just breathing (Credit: Bayerischer Rundfunk)
The other day I felt a spray of aerosol from my tenor mouthpiece drift onto my forearms. The spray was coming off the reed because I tend get a bit um juicy when I play.

Those were the heavy droplets. Large enough and heavy enough for gravity to affect and pull them down onto my arms. I’m sure the smaller lighter ones filled the practice room. All the shield would do is divert the aerosol to the sides and down. Air currents would carry them all over after that as shown on the photo.

Aerosols vs. droplets - correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t an aerosol just a lot of microscopic droplets?
 

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My country's "official" COVID info says that droplets are the primary means of spreading, aerosols secondary, though.
'Knowledge' comes in different 'flavors' in terms of how people arrive at it. There hasn't been time for the sorts of exhaustive, concretely specific studies to nail down blatant certainties with regard to the disease, so you get a range of approaches to making recommendations which range from unfounded speculation to extremely conservative caution relying solely on carefully curated sources.

When this thing started, I went looking for answers. My approach to knowledge is to look for relevant connections and contrary evidence. Long before the US started recommending masks it was clearly very likely that the disease was airborne. Not because someone had done a controlled test with live virus (the only type of evidence some people might accept) but because of many documented instances in which airborne spread was the only possible explanation, and because of how fast the virus spreads. It was already documented at this time that virus particles (whether active or inactive was not known) could spread over long distances and appear on surfaces all over the rooms of patients. I have since heard of instances in which hospital rooms not used for Covid patients were found to have large amounts of identifiable viral particles on the floor. High counts of such particles were found on the floors of hospital staff dressing rooms and in the air around ER entrances.

Now if Covid didn't spread much that information wouldn't be grounds for alarm about it being airborne, but the fact is it spreads amazingly well. Since masks have been recommended more and more evidence has surfaced, and we see things like the carefully documented South Korea study in which someone caught the disease with five minutes' exposure from 20 feet away. There are other similar cases. There is also documentation that the virus can remain viable in aerosols. It is known that aerosol can remain in the air for hours. When you compare all this information to what is known about existing airborne viruses the similarities are very clear even if every single link in the chain hasn't yet been nailed down.

You mentioned that most spread happens through larger droplets. Is that supposed to make Covid different from other airborne diseases? Of course not, since how much virus you receive in your exposure makes the difference in whether you get sick, greater exposure such as more often happens at droplet distances will always account for more people catching the disease. That most cases arise from droplet exposure doesn't make an airborne virus less airborne.

If you don't want to catch this disease (and there's good reason to want to avoid it even if you are young and have no pre-existing conditions), you have to choose your experts very, very carefully, because they are not all equal in the quality of their thinking.
 

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Before you dogpile on these companies, please remember there have been mask and bell cover requirements put in place in many schools and while these recommendations may or may not make sense, for a lot of schools this is the only way to allow for any playing indoors. While the space shield may be ridiculous in design, it may have a place in meeting equally perhaps nonsensical requirements for PPE in a given school program.
 

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The other day I felt a spray of aerosol from my tenor mouthpiece drift onto my forearms. The spray was coming off the reed because I tend get a bit um juicy when I play.

Those were the heavy droplets. Large enough and heavy enough for gravity to affect and pull them down onto my arms. I’m sure the smaller lighter ones filled the practice room. All the shield would do is divert the aerosol to the sides and down. Air currents would carry them all over after that as shown on the photo.

Aerosols vs. droplets - correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t an aerosol just a lot of microscopic droplets?
I agree with you, ATS. As labels are applied to each of these, we lose the appreciation that there is a continuum from the smallest to larger volumes of these virus vehicles. Consider also the volume of air that a player inhales in the course of a performance, and one starts to understand that a windplayer is exposed to many more orders of magnitude the quantity of virus particles for a given space.
 

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Before you dogpile on these companies, please remember there have been mask and bell cover requirements put in place in many schools and while these recommendations may or may not make sense, for a lot of schools this is the only way to allow for any playing indoors. While the space shield may be ridiculous in design, it may have a place in meeting equally perhaps nonsensical requirements for PPE in a given school program.
If what you say is true, then an educational opportunity exists. People making such decisions need to be better informed. Please share the message.
 
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You say that so much nicer than me Dr.G

I suppose I have simply lost patience with a great deal of the human race. I have found most have no interest in being educated beyond what they prefer to believe.
 
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