[Heath Watts]

I was inclined to submit this post because of a recent thread that discussed thumb pain when playing the soprano saxophone.

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?366628-Any-suggestions-for-a-sore-thumb-joint

When my hands are strong, I have fewer injuries and pain. Playing the saxophone is an endurance exercise, so I don't want to do endurance exercises for my hands in addition to playing. For hand strength, I use low repetitions and relatively heavy weights, just as I do for the rest of my body (e.g., squats, deadlifts, presses, etc.).

There are a number of companies who make specialized equipment for increasing hand strength, and I've bought so much of it over the years that one might suspect that I have ten hands instead of just two. However, variety is also a key to keeping my hands healthy and strong. The generally locked position of my hands while playing my soprano makes my hands weak and prone to injury. By doing various exercises to strengthen all aspects of my hand strength, I keep them healthy and injury free.

Here are a few places that sell high-quality and useful hand-strength equipment:

http://ironmind.com/
https://www.barrelstrengthsystems.com/
http://www.fatbastardbarbellco.com/WELCOME.html
https://www.strongergrip.com/grip-gear/

Pinch grip strength is important for preventing thumb injuries, which is of particular importance when playing the straight soprano saxophone without a strap. I hope that this information is useful.

 

[Lambros]

I think soprano woodwind players (clarinet, flute, soprano sax, oboe) understand that posture is so important, develop good habits that can ease the strain of the right hand significantly. Soprano sax in particular, is longer than the Bb soprano clarinet and significantly heavier as well. Part of one's practice regimen should include just holding the instrument in posture exercises because it's easy to lose awareness of how unwieldy it is and the strain it is causing when our mouth stabilize it during playing.

 

[Heath Watts]

I think soprano woodwind players (clarinet, flute, soprano sax, oboe) understand that posture is so important, develop good habits that can ease the strain of the right hand significantly. Soprano sax in particular, is longer than the Bb soprano clarinet and significantly heavier as well. Part of one's practice regimen should include just holding the instrument in posture exercises because it's easy to lose awareness of how unwieldy it is and the strain it is causing when our mouth stabilize it during playing.

I agree that posture and holding the instrument correctly are very important practices. However, holding something correctly for 3+ hours per day for 20, 30, 40, or more years is still going to wear our your joints, unless you do something to strengthen them.

 

[Lambros]

100% correct. Anything that helps strengthen ones hands but also not lose the sensitivity/lightness of touch in articulation, all of this has to be taken seriously as it is so in the moment as well as being an endurance issue.

I agree that posture and holding the instrument correctly are very important practices. However, holding something correctly for 3+ hours per day for 20, 30, 40, or more years is still going to wear our your joints, unless you do something to strengthen them.

 

[turf3]

Absolutely agree. Strong muscles around a joint is the very best way to protect the joint. Any PT will tell you this. My own personal experience (two bum knees and two bum shoulders) convinces me of it.

 

[Heath Watts]

100% correct. Anything that helps strengthen ones hands but also not lose the sensitivity/lightness of touch in articulation, all of this has to be taken seriously as it is so in the moment as well as being an endurance issue.

Being stronger would not make one lose sensitivity or lightness of touch. Stronger muscles and connective tissues are more efficient and controllable than weaker muscles and connective tissues are. I don't want to read too much into your comment, but are you arguing that strength training will make you "muscle bound". If that is your argument, then I disagree, as does the science. If I'm misunderstanding your statement, I apologize.

 

[Lambros]

That's exactly what I meant, no disagreements with you Heath; you could say strength and sensitivity in articulated touch go 'hand in hand'.

Being stronger would not make one lose sensitivity or lightness of touch. Stronger muscles and connective tissues are more efficient and controllable than weaker muscles and connective tissues are. I don't want to read too much into your comment, but are you arguing that strength training will make you "muscle bound". If that is your argument, then I disagree, as does the science. If I'm misunderstanding your statement, I apologize.

 

[Heath Watts]

That's exactly what I meant, no disagreements with you Heath; you could say strength and sensitivity in articulated touch go 'hand in hand'.

Sorry, I misunderstood you previous comment. Yes, I'd say that too! I hope you're safe and well.

 

[Miralejos]

https://handhealth.com/products

 

[Heath Watts]

https://handhealth.com/products

Yes, I'd forgotten about those tools. Because I type all day at work and play my sax a lot, I have chronic tennis elbow. The Flexbar on that site and products similar to the Power-Web (I use heavy rubber bands from ironmind.com) have been very useful for repairing that injury.

 

[lydian]

Yes, I'd forgotten about those tools. Because I type all day at work and play my sax a lot, I have chronic tennis elbow. The Flexbar on that site and products similar to the Power-Web (I use heavy rubber bands from ironmind.com) have been very useful for repairing that injury.

I also had chronic tennis elbow for years doing the same tasks as you. This cured it: raising my office chair so that my forearms angled slightly downward rather than perfectly horizontal or slightly upward. This improved circulation, and the condition was cured within a couple of days. It feels like you're sitting too high at first, but you get used to it.

As far as soprano goes, it's all in the angle. The side of your thumb can't take anywhere near the amount of force the pad can. So if you angle the end of the horn up, more force goes on the pad, and you get no fatigue or pain.

 

[Lambros]

thanks, you as well.

Sorry, I misunderstood you previous comment. Yes, I'd say that too! I hope you're safe and well.

 

[Grumps]

I have big strong hands. Like really big. Really strong. The best fitting gloves I've worn were size 4X. I can juggle basketballs. No lie. I may have shaken hands with perhaps... a handful... of people with bigger hands than me, and for the most part they were professional basketball players. With that said, I cannot grip a saxophone like most folks. My right hand thumb cannot wrap around the body of any saxophone, let alone a soprano. To play saxophone, I have to pull my right thumb in towards my hand and **** the upper end of it to support the thumb rest. Playing at this angle has given me chronic pain that is manageable... well, manageable up to the point of playing a straight soprano. No. That pain became unbearable and the only fix was selling the horn and sticking with my curved sopranos used with a neck strap. Problem solved.

 

[Lambros]

Grumps, I won’t even ask then what it was like playing that beautiful sopranino you once had.

 

[Grumps]

Grumps, I won't even ask then what it was like playing that beautiful sopranino you once had.

Just like me playing a curved soprano. Funny looking. :lol:

But the sopranino didn't hurt my thumb so much... as my ears.

 

[Lambros]

Yes...it's an acquired taste.

Just like me playing a curved soprano. Funny looking. :lol:

But the sopranino didn't hurt my thumb so much... as my ears.

 

[Heath Watts]

I also had chronic tennis elbow for years doing the same tasks as you. This cured it: raising my office chair so that my forearms angled slightly downward rather than perfectly horizontal or slightly upward. This improved circulation, and the condition was cured within a couple of days. It feels like you're sitting too high at first, but you get used to it.

As far as soprano goes, it's all in the angle. The side of your thumb can't take anywhere near the amount of force the pad can. So if you angle the end of the horn up, more force goes on the pad, and you get no fatigue or pain.

Thanks for the tip about typing angle. Most of my problems come from typing. I generally play with my horn up, as you suggested.

 

[musekatcher]

Check the location of the thumb hook relative to the F and E lower stack keys. My hand's natural cup, has my thumb exactly opposite my index finger. But, my horns force my thumb to be opposite my middle finger, or even ring finger. I had my tech fab a custom hook for my MVI, and my 615 had been "modified" by a previous owner, bending the hook up so the thumb and index oppose. Maybe everybody else's hands are different?

 

[turf3]

Check the location of the thumb hook relative to the F and E lower stack keys. My hand's natural cup, has my thumb exactly opposite my index finger. But, my horns force my thumb to be opposite my middle finger, or even ring finger. I had my tech fab a custom hook for my MVI, and my 615 had been "modified" by a previous owner, bending the hook up so the thumb and index oppose. Maybe everybody else's hands are different?

Very good point. I have broad palms and short fingers so my thumb is also naturally across from my index finger. This is the main source of pain on soprano sax and clarinet for me. I need the thumb hooks moved up close to an inch from where they're usually installed. For horns where the alt F# is on the back, that limits how much the hook can be moved. Fortunately my Buescher soprano has the alt F# tone hole on the front so I was able to move the hook up to where it needs to be. Unfortunately the only horn I'm aware of designed to take this into account is the Martin C3 with its adjustable hook (the Selmer style go from side to side but not up and down).

Yes, people's hands are different.

 

[eivmel]

Check the location of the thumb hook relative to the F and E lower stack keys. My hand's natural cup, has my thumb exactly opposite my index finger. But, my horns force my thumb to be opposite my middle finger, or even ring finger. I had my tech fab a custom hook for my MVI, and my 615 had been "modified" by a previous owner, bending the hook up so the thumb and index oppose. Maybe everybody else's hands are different?

No, most people have their thumb and index finger opposite each other. Saxes are unfortunately just poorly designed...