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Greasing Pads, why not?

13K views 63 replies 26 participants last post by  milandro 
#1 ·
Hi,

It might sound silly, but was wondering around with this question... Why if you gotta maintain your leather goods, grease your leather shoes once in a while...Why not greasy the pads?

Regards!
 
#4 ·
I've used Neets Foot Oil for years. A very light application every 6 mos. or so with a cotton swab. No stickyness and my pads stay flexible for a long time. In fact, when my G# key has stuck, I've used Neets Foot oil and a cotton swab to clean it and it cures the sticking for an extended period. definately better than the powder cure.
 
#5 ·
It has been highlighted in this forum that Neatsfoot oil also makes the fibres of the leather very weak, inviting splitting of the pads. Look carefully for those almost invisible (but b adly leaking) cuts made by the tone holes.
 
#15 ·
If the Eric Brand book told you to smear them with dog dirt, would you do that? Eric Brand's book was written decades ago and things have moved on since - although not always in the right direction. Modern pads are often made with some form of waterproof coated leather (usually a thin coating of plastic) which gets very sticky when contaminated with grease and oils, so it's best not to use anything greasy or oily on them or any pads.
 
#8 ·
milandro- do you use a particular type of silicone? I've only seen silicone caulk sealant and silicone glue. Some sort of liquid in a tube I presume?
 
#10 ·
I use a silicone spray (bought two bottle years ago and I still have it) which I bought from a cheap supermarket something like this (looks like this I am not sure is the same product)

:tsk: some leather care products makers say that silicone shouldn't work and should actually be harmful some recommend it :tsk:...........[rolleyes]


 
#11 ·
sticky pads are more often caused by crud on the tonehole and not the pad, putting stuff on the pad is a temporary fix.

also you generally do not grease your shoes you wax them and your shoes are not located next a very tight tolerance mechanism. also shoes go on your feet and not in your saxophone, so I do not think it is a fair comparision.

if i overhauled a horn and a customer came back and had lathered oil all over everything, so goes the warranty on the overhaul.
 
#12 ·
the words " tight tolerance mechanism" makes me somewhat think of other and more complicated things......

If a saxophone would be a low tolerance mechanism the keys would need no pads and would be air-tight, pads are a low tech intelligent functional mechanism but hardly an example of a tight tollerance
 
#13 ·
i am not sure what your point is, simple machines can have tight tolerances. and your hinge tubes and mechanism shoudl eb to a tight tolerance.

my point was that if your horn is set up right, and maintianed properly, and you dont' drink all sorts of diet soda/sugary drinks when you play, you really should not need to spray any crap on your pads. you would be better served figuring out why your pads are sticking rather than putting a band aid over the real problem which in the end may wind up causing more damage than good.

if spraying crap on your pads was a good idea (or even a marginally exceptable idea), i am sure every saxophone company would sell their own special blend of crap to spray on your pads. and we could have wonderful online discussions about why the selmer can of pad crap was better than the yamaha pad crap etc....
 
#59 ·
i am not sure what your point is, simple machines can have tight tolerances. and your hinge tubes and mechanism shoudl eb to a tight tolerance.

my point was that if your horn is set up right, and maintianed properly, and you dont' drink all sorts of diet soda/sugary drinks when you play, you really should not need to spray any crap on your pads. you would be better served figuring out why your pads are sticking rather than putting a band aid over the real problem which in the end may wind up causing more damage than good.

if spraying crap on your pads was a good idea (or even a marginally exceptable idea), i am sure every saxophone company would sell their own special blend of crap to spray on your pads. and we could have wonderful online discussions about why the selmer can of pad crap was better than the yamaha pad crap etc....
I would like to know where i can get some of this spray crap. my neighbors dog keeps crapping on my yard and id like to go to his house and give some back. if its in spray form, i can put it right on the dor nob.

seriously though. ive never considered putting something on the pads. and to alay chris's fear about the intelect level of those reading the thread, this has added adequate comfusion to justifying my continued practice and going to the tech if im having problems:)
 
#14 ·
actually lots of pad makers protect their pads with some waterproofing agent.

A saxophone is not a highly sophisticated precision machine and that's why the pads are a simple and effective way to seal keys with a leather felt cushioned implement which will seal well enough what otherwise, due to its relatively low tech, mechanism wouldn't be sealing.

a valve of a high performance engine is a hight tech mechanism, a pad, isn't.

 
#16 ·
Emilio Lyons the "sax doctor" when he does a re-pad his pads are "coated", and he recommends Old English Oil (yep, the furniture oil) evry now and then. But these are not plain pads, but coated with ... hmmmm...not even sure. Maybe smeone could chime in in regards to that ....
 
#18 ·
I've read somewhere else on here that Emilio Lyons recommended spraying WD-40 on sax pads as well. How many have taken that advice?

Honestly, this thread is a total farce! If you believe all manner of crap, then good luck to you all!

One thing that will stop sticking pads permanently is dowsing the sax in petrol and setting light to it. Go ahead and try it and if it works, great. If it doesn't then f***ing sue me!
 
#21 ·
I have used Neatsfoot/neetsfoot (sic) (I'm not sure of the spelling and I see it spelled both ways in this thread) but only on very dry and crispy pads that weren't sealing well. I applied it like mentioned above with a cotton swab and then let the horn sit in the stand over night. I didn't experience any negative effects from this and was able to extend the life of the pads. They still needed to be replaced, just not as soon. That was my experience, for what it is worth.
 
#22 ·
With all this talk of greasing, oiling, waxing or applying anything else to pads, I certainly won't want to be the parent of a high school kid who has to fork out the cost for an overhaul (and that's replacing EVERYTHING perishable, not just a 15 minute look-at or changing a couple of pads at the most) on their kid's brand new sax as they decided to oil the pads or coat them in creosote and everything's gone tits-up because they read something along those lines on here.

I wouldn't want to be faced with an instrument coming to me with all the pads dropping out or sticking or the mechanism all gummed up because they read something about greasing or oiling pads. Years ago I had the unenviable task of rebuilding a flute whose owner thought it was a good idea to oil it with olive oil! Could I get the poxy thing apart? Could I f***! It took several days of being soaked in solvent to free all the binding screws.

Do realise there are some gullible people out there reading all these incredibly helpful tips and they take what they read on messageboards as gospel and may not fully understand what harm they can do.
 
#24 ·
Right - I just dug out a copy of Eric Brand's book and there is a small section on cleaning sax pads.

He suggests using carbon tetrachloride with a few drops of mineral oil added to it (which is pretty much the same as the Tone Woodwind-All spray). Nowhere does it mention oiling the pads with oil alone, but he doesn't advocate the use of neat solvent either as a cleaning agent as it dries out the leather.

Remember that this was written at a time when leather pads weren't waterproof treated or plastic coated as they usually are now.
 
#25 ·
Hi,
I usually don't jump into these discussions but I know the pain sticky pads can be, especially during a performance or gig.Thru the years I've tried many things from dollar bills ,powder paper,oils ,silicone sprays and neatsfoot oils which worked well if used sparingly,and since I'm Italian even olive oil.
Several months ago I was having a heck of a time with the A key, middle finger left hand and the pad just below it.I came across an article about ptfe teflon spray and how it can seal up the micropores of leather and essentially waterproof it.I found a can at ace hardware called triflow superior lubricant.I sprayed some on a qtip and applied it to the pad, let it set fo a few seconds and patted it with a paper towel to absorb any excess and it hasn't stuck since and that was last xmas.It may have to be reapplied from time to time.
It's a great lubricant and I also use it on garage door springs and squeaky wheels.
 
#27 ·
In forty five years of playing, I've never put anything on a pad. My tech always compliments me on the condition of the pads. A couple may be replaced every couple of years, but it's from leaking, not sticking. I rarely have a pad stick, and it's almost always the low C# (which is the pad most often replaced)

Why do preventative maintenance on something that doesn't need it?
 
#39 · (Edited)
This is what is confusing me, also.

There seems to be three forks in this conversation. For purpose of: 1) prevention 2) anti-stick 3) rejuvenation of old pads

Which are we talking about ?????

If you bought decent quality pads to being with (or assuming your tech uses 'em)...then 1) shouldn't be an issue at all. Don't fix if it ain't broke. Even throwing names around like Emilio (who's work has actually come under some criticism since the advent of sax Forums) or Brand doesn't impress me very much. The pads should be of a quality to do their job.

I mean...someone saying "I have been treating my pads regularly with XXX for 7 years and it has worked GREAT !" is...sorta...wha ?
The first Q which pops into my head when I hear this is: "so, would the same set of pads untreated have failed w/i those 7 years ?"

Let's jump to 3): as has been discussed elsewhere here....old dry or failing pads are not really "rejuvenated" by slicking up or softening up their leather. The leather plays only a small part of it since it is also the felts below which are old, and contribute a large portion to the failure or non-failure of the pad. So...this leather-treating will, at best, buy you some time....but most often will not, alone, 'fix' the problem.

So, as for 2)....I am all for feedback on various methods to stop sticking; because the fact is the most popularly suggested two or three methods do not always work for everyone. But this, again, is applying something in an attempt to alleviate a specific problem...and probably should only be done on whatever pad is having the problem.

I don't see why an entire set of pads should be "treated" or "pre-treated" at all...seems a bit of a non sequitur to me....
 
#28 ·
Pad leather is usually sheep skin. The padding inside is usually wool.
In keeping with the theme, coat the pads with 100% pure Lanolin. :twisted:
Really, if you keep everything very clean there should be no sticking problem.
However some sticking may occur regardless of how festidious we are.
 
#32 ·
In Chris's defence he did quote from the Eric Brand book.

I too advise against putting anything on your pads, I clean pads and tonehole rims with a cotton bud (Qtip) and mild soapy water, and also use lighter fluid on a dollar bill. With the very stuborn sticking pads I tend to replace with brown kangaroo skin pads or cork pads if the key is small enough.
 
#33 ·
there has been extensive coverage of the WD 40 in other threads.



Used in moderate amount it might be performing a solvent action on the pad since most of it is not oil as the majority of people seem to believe, but solvents. If used extensively to the point that it soaks in the pads, its action though seems to be deleterious when it comes to the other parts of the pads. I personally wouldn't use it...........I am sticking to my non sticking silicon , teflon sounds also a good idea but I don't know how much it will be absorbed by the pad, so, one possible has to periodically apply some tif there is a stubborn case.

Often times I have had examples of pads sticking from new, so I dispute the " fact" that sticking is something that occurs because of the consumption of drinks or food during playing. Anyway , if I buy a second hand saxophone, and that happens often, most of the times, even if almost new, I do hear the " kissing" sound of some or all the pads. In those cases I use my method which normally takes care of the problem. The saxophone which has been exposed longer to this treatment is my Super 20 tenor . It came to me second hand with old but non original pads some badly affected by green oxidation (the pads of the keys that are always shut). I cleaned those although the problem kept on showing on the G# pad for a while (but the lifting mechanism of the Super 20 G# key needed a bit of attention by a tech) , after that It only ever occasionally showed and a small application of silicon took care of it.

Soon I will have my horn overhauled with new white kangaroo pads . The toneholes would be also levelled (if necessary) and certainly cleaned. We will see , afterwards if the kangaroo pads do what they say they would do and if there will be any need for any silicone anywhere. I hope not. But just in case........

If pads are not made of Kangaroo leather ( the most modern modern trend) the most valuable and appreciated material would be kid skin , although it is also possible that some lesser types are made of sheep skin.
 
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