[arya44]

Sorry for cross posting. Just I thought a new thread would draw the attention since I need to decide about this quickly.

There are two options for me to buy:
Ida Maria Grassi Tenor Professional from 1981 vs. Professional 2000 made in mid 80s.
The Professional looks like new. Professional 2000 looks ok. Neither of them have high F#. Professional may end up being sold lower price than Professional 2000.
Do you know if it's worth it to pay let's say 400 bucks more to buy Professional 2000 vs. Professional? What are the differences anyway?
It seems latest Professional 2000 has high F# based on an ad for an alto I saw earlier. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is it worth it to wait and find a latest Professional 2000 with high F# or they are almost identical otherwise?

Do they have that focused core sound of let's say a French Selmer?

Thanks.

 

[Sidepipes]

I have a Professional alto, SN 44XXX range, that has nickel keywork and the high F#, so possibly that was an option. The bell brace attachment is more like the jade series. I sound basically the same on it as I do on my YAS-62 and my Mark VI. At least that's what my wife says.

 

[soybean]

No they really don't sound like French Selmer. They look a bit like Selmer but have a slightly smaller sound. The high F# is something I love, but many players say it's not important.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

No they really don't sound like French Selmer. They look a bit like Selmer but have a slightly smaller sound. The high F# is something I love, but many players say it's not important.

I wonder soybean whether you have ever heard "back to back" comparisons with the same person playing both Selmer and Grassi....the sound, (and it's "size",) in my experience is determined mostly by the player.
By the way, I too love high F#, but can find it with 3 seperate fingerings without the mechanical complexity of a dedicated key.

 

[MMM]

Do you know if it's worth it to pay let's say 400 bucks more to buy Professional 2000 vs. Professional? What are the differences anyway?
Thanks.

Sound aside (and nobody will know without play testing them both) with the Pro 2000 you are getting better keywork (left hand pinky keys are hinged a la Selmer). Someone on a different sax forum called his Pro 2000 tenor a "Gelmer", as he thought the sound was reminiscent of a Selmer... but that's his opinion...

Hope this helps,
M.

 

[soybean]

I wonder soybean whether you have ever heard "back to back" comparisons with the same person playing both Selmer and Grassi....the sound, (and it's "size",) in my experience is determined mostly by the player.

HI Captain. I've actually owned three Grassi Pro horns; 2 altos and a tenor, at the same time owning Mk VI alto and tenor. I do like the sound of the Grassi and they are a good value, but I still stand by my statement. If someone wants a really loud sax, they are probably going to buy a Yamaha or other horn than a Grassi or Mk VI anyway.

 

[jthole]

Sound aside (and nobody will know without play testing them both) with the Pro 2000 you are getting better keywork (left hand pinky keys are hinged a la Selmer).

Definitely true, though I have seen Ebay pictures of Pro 2000 bari saxes with the non-balanced keywork.

I played on "non-balanced" designs all my life, so it wouldn't be the deciding factor for me. But if you are used to modern saxes now, it may be important for you.

HI Captain. I've actually owned three Grassi Pro horns; 2 altos and a tenor, at the same time owning Mk VI alto and tenor. I do like the sound of the Grassi and they are a good value, but I still stand by my statement. If someone wants a really loud sax, they are probably going to buy a Yamaha or other horn than a Grassi or Mk VI anyway.

My repairman tells me the same; he thinks that the Grassi saxes have a somewhat smaller sound than the Selmer Mk VI and other Selmer horns.

It is definitely a smaller sound than my previous Martin bari, but that one was a beast anyway

 

[Yellowhorn]

Some of my friends thought that this Grassi Prestige were a VI when they watched the following clip: (This is for comparison's sake; please overlook any shortcoming.):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7qt-FBlVfs

 

[un litro de chel bon]

hi everyone! i also have a prestige tenor, i think it is a good choice because grassis are undervalued
here in italy professional or professional2000 price range is 500€ -800€
in the second part of 80s grassi outlines its production, so the sound between professional and professional2000 should be different
if you want to listen another grassi, listen eli degibri (i think it is a professional or a standard model, not professional2000) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7q9Ykns5_M
prestige and professional2000 have a different sound

 

[KarlAlfredWalsh]

What is a reasonable price range for a Grassi Pro 2000 alto in good condition? Thanks.

 

[The Big Woo]

Some of my friends thought that this Grassi Prestige were a VI when they watched the following clip: (This is for comparison's sake; please overlook any shortcoming.):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7qt-FBlVfs

Very nice playing.

 

[The Big Woo]

hi everyone! i also have a prestige tenor, i think it is a good choice because grassis are undervalued
here in italy professional or professional2000 price range is 500€ -800€
in the second part of 80s grassi outlines its production, so the sound between professional and professional2000 should be different
if you want to listen another grassi, listen eli degibri (i think it is a professional or a standard model, not professional2000) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7q9Ykns5_M
prestige and professional2000 have a different sound

Wow, This is a great clip. I'm a huge Ron Carter fan because of his great performances here in Denver. I had no idea that an old Grassi could be so fine. My first thought, sound-wise, was of a Yanagisawa 9xx. Pretty amazing for an old Grassi!
(I say "old" because I noticed that Eli Degibri, who plays beautifully on every track, is using a Selmer styled Left hand table but the bell brace ring is directly soldered to the bell and is not the "Improved 2 point" so it must be a little bit further back in the Grassi production timeline)

Perhaps Milandro or Beeflat can confirm or refute my statement, but based on what I see in these 2 fantastic clips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOGgXn8dpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOGgXn8dpU his horn is just a Grassi Standard MKII with a Selmer styled L hand table with jade pearls and rollers on it. Either way, it sounds beautifully rich and complex in its tone.

I'm just going to come out and apologize to you guys right now. Until I started truly listening to some of the old Grassi's I pretty much lumped all vintage Italian saxophones into the "student band crap" pile. Based on what I'm hearing in the sound clips I was very mistaken.

 

[Tommyk]

Even this player, Larry Nocella, played a Grassi tenor (I don't know the model) .... He was one preminent jazzist in Italy, sadly died at 40, 25 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GutxVFuOji4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGRR68WSI6s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWnUj4Q44P0

 

[The Big Woo]

Tommyk, Very interesting. It sure seems like he studied Coltrane extensively from the style of his playing.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

Tommyk, Very interesting. It sure seems like he studied Coltrane extensively from the style of his playing.

Yes....superb playing, despite his tendency towards finger flapping. :bluewink:
This serves to shew that a "professional" grade saxophone is that which the professional player chooses to play.
We are led to believe that Ida Maria made student saxophones until, as her swansong, she decided to go out with a bang & make the superb Pro 2000 & Prestige professional grade horns.
Clearly this is not the case....judged by that recording I would be perfectly happy to play an earlier "student" (?) Grassi....provided that it had modern (as opposed to antique American) key-work....especially the appalling "in line" spatula keys.

 

[The Big Woo]

Hang on, I'm trying to type a response but first I need to wipe all of your sarcasm off of my screen..... :mrgreen:

Man, they really are killers. I wish that I could find some Euro youtube clips of Grassi horns in action. Surely there must still be some in use somewhere. I'm guessing that there should be more remaining in Europe than in the USA. I'm seriously blown away by the sound Degibri gets out of that tenor. I'd like to know if his jade rollers model has the exact same sound as the "Export" and/or "Standard MKII". That would basically place any of them in the elite, all-time great horns in my book.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

Hang on, I'm trying to type a response but first I need to wipe all of your sarcasm off of my screen..... :mrgreen:

Man, they really are killers. I wish that I could find some Euro youtube clips of Grassi horns in action. Surely there must still be some in use somewhere. I'm guessing that there should be more remaining in Europe than in the USA. I'm seriously blown away by the sound Degibri gets out of that tenor. I'd like to know if his jade rollers model has the exact same sound as the "Export" and/or "Standard MKII". That would basically place any of them in the elite, all-time great horns in my book.

Honestly, no sarcasm intended.
Simply that I have been enlightened....I had no idea that the Jade Roller versions were such jolly good saxophones.

 

[Sidepipes]

I took the jade rollers from a badly broken horn and put them on my Grassi Professsional alto. Looks better, sounds the same! :bluewink2:

 

[milandro]

I can’t tell from the video what is the model that is played there as shown before jade rollers might have been added later.

Either way the body tube and neck of the several Grassi models stayed pretty much the same throughout the 30 years run while they gradually updated their models as the upped their game with the Professional 2000 and the Prestige being their best instruments.

Anyway even the humble “ Standard” or the “ Export” ( of which several versions exist some simpler keyed than others ) or the “ Jade rollers’ have the power to play the same because their basic design is the same.

I don’t like anyone comparing saxophones and saying that brand so and so plays like brand so and so.

Each and every brand plays like they play and more importantly each saxophone plays like its player.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

I don’t like anyone comparing saxophones and saying that brand so and so plays like brand so and so.

Each and every brand plays like they play and more importantly each saxophone plays like its player.

I do so agree.
Those who think that this minutiae is important, often claim that the spatula keys are copied from the Buffet, or the SBA, or the Carlos Fandango.
Who cares....it matters not a jot. It does not mean that the horn is attempting to emulate these manufacturers....just following a good ergonomic idea; viz. To place the keys directly under the fingers.
The saxophone will sound like the player, as you say.....& the Grassi will sound like the Grassi.
The Grassi is not attempting to sound like a Selmer....despite the mischievous "G" on the octave rocker, the bell brace & the silver triangle on the front of the neck.
If I wanted a Selmer, then, as others do, I would buy a Selmer....it just happens that I prefer my Grassi.