[Bart56]

Hi All,

I was looking to brighten my sound from my stock Yamaha 5C and after some research here, the Graftonite was one of the recommended mpcs so I am trying it on my YAS-23.

First impressions is that it is certainly brighter, but, using the same Hemke 2.5 reed that I use on my C5,
- It warbles on low D and below.
- it has a tendency to play the overtone first on those low notes
- it squeaks (actually pops up to higher harmonics)
- fits so tight on the neck it only goes on halfway down the cork (but is in tune)
- seems to not like playing softly (note stops playing and just air flows)
- Altissimo is squirrely e.g. it likes to hang on a G# when dropping down to G and also pops to higher notes.

My Yamaha 5C is a little darker but plays great. It is much more stable and predictable. Although I'm not trying to go above Altissimo G# it plays very well at that altitude.

Does anyone have advice on the Graftonite or similar experiences? I can return it and probably will if I don't make some improvements in my playing. It makes practice difficult and not a lot of fun.

Thanks.

 

[datsaxman]

First impression is you need to put more air through the horn.
And take in more mouthpiece. And maybe try a softer reed.

But I am guessing.

 

[mbishop752]

A Rico 5 is a lot bigger opening than a Yamaha 5C so it can take some getting used to

 

[Bart56]

First impression is you need to put more air through the horn.
And take in more mouthpiece. And maybe try a softer reed

Thanks @datsaxman
I've been playing on it using a Rico 2.0 reed for the last half hour with little improvement except a little easier to blow. I still have most of the same issues - warbling, squirrely altissimo, a squeak if I tighten up too much now and ten.

It's probably me not wanting to blast the house down as I play in a small 12x12 office and try to keep the rest of the family happy. When I push a lot of air through ir, it gets pretty loud but still likes to jump into overtones and other harmonics.

I've been playing the 5C for several months and I've had this B5 for a few weeks but I usually end up changing back to the Yamaha 5C after 20 minutes of frustration. The difference is huge in terms of playability and I can focus on the music instead of trying to get it to voice properly.

When I play with just the mouthpiece (embouchure practice) The 5C with a 2.5 reed has a wider range than the Graftonite 5B with a 2.0 reed and also has much better sound from the 5C - meaning no missed notes,

I'm trying to love it, but yikes! Why keep it if it is so much trouble?

Cheers.

 

[Bart56]

A Rico 5 is a lot bigger opening than a Yamaha 5C so it can take some getting used to

Yes - the C5 is 0.70" and the B5 is 0.80". I had hoped the softer reed would have helped. This may be why I get maybe 1 or 2 seconds on the pop test while the Yamaha 5C goes 5 to 7 seconds, sometimes longer depending on the reed.

 

[Sacks Of Phones]

Hi All,

I was looking to brighten my sound from my stock Yamaha 5C and after some research here, the Graftonite was one of the recommended mpcs so I am trying it on my YAS-23.

First impressions is that it is certainly brighter, but, using the same Hemke 2.5 reed that I use on my C5,
- It warbles on low D and below.
- it has a tendency to play the overtone first on those low notes
- it squeaks (actually pops up to higher harmonics)
- fits so tight on the neck it only goes on halfway down the cork (but is in tune)
- seems to not like playing softly (note stops playing and just air flows)
- Altissimo is squirrely e.g. it likes to hang on a G# when dropping down to G and also pops to higher notes.

My Yamaha 5C is a little darker but plays great. It is much more stable and predictable. Although I'm not trying to go above Altissimo G# it plays very well at that altitude.

Does anyone have advice on the Graftonite or similar experiences? I can return it and probably will if I don't make some improvements in my playing. It makes practice difficult and not a lot of fun.

Thanks.

Yep, sounds like Graftonite problems. If your reed is too hard, especially on the B and C chambers, you get the warble. Been there. Try a softer reed or just don't use the Graftonite. Note that due to the baffle drop off after the tip, they may sound muffled or muddy. I used to use one on tenor years ago after putting down my bright Berg Larsen, but felt it was lacking. I used one on alto years ago for a short time but gave up on it. It was not worth the hassle. My advice is get a better mouthpiece.

 

[mbishop752]

I was thinking the tip difference was greater but I must be misremembering the 5C. I quite like the Graftonite pieces on tenor. I'm new to alto and have a Rico B5 that I'm undecided about, but I mostly blame my terrible embouchure.

 

[ajarndontree]

Rico is a poor quality reed. I only recommend those for primary school beginners who often chip the tip of their reeds and waste a large percentage of their first box of reeds. There is a thread here on sotw on the importance of matching the reed to the mouthpiece that I highly recommend reading. You should try a 2.5 reed with the Graftonite that is cut for a mouthpiece with a larger tip opening. For example, a Vandoren V16 is about a quarter to a half strength softer than a Hemke and should be a better fit for that mouthpiece. I also like Vandoren Java and Rigotti gold jazz, also in a 2.5. Also I agree with the previous thread where someone posted in great detail about making adjustments to your embouchure. Perhaps your embouchure is not relaxed enough to get the best possible tone out of a piece with a larger tip opening?

 

[datsaxman]

Rico reeds are not the problem here. Rico reeds are fine.

 

[Bart56]

Well, I've not had very god luck with orange box Ricos. They have very low quality where 2 out of 3 reeds in a 3-pack are nearly unplayable even after attempting adjustments. I've had better experience with Vandoren but even better with Hemke. The Rico Blue Royal have been disappointing, still struggling to find a good reed after using 3 from the box.

I expect I'll have to change my embouchure to accommodate the Graftonite, but I don't know where that will take me - closer or further from the tone I'm looking for. Sigh...

I'm seriously thinking of returning it and looking for something else. The metallite has the same general shape with the raised table which I don't like so I don't think I'll go there.

Cheers and thanks for all the advice.

 

[JayeLID]

Yeah, the problem here is....Graftonites are bad (sorry, I know they have their fans...which to this day I fail to understand how - I mean, ONCE upon a time they cost $9, so at least there was THAT. But now they don't even have that going for 'em).

I mean going from a Yama-branded mouthpiece to a Graftonite....that is just slipping a few rungs DOWN the ladder.

The design and precision of even a stock Yama is significantly superior to a Rico. You can keep messing around with reeds and stuff...but probably a more direct solution is to put the thing in a drawer, or use it as a doorstop...and go look for a better mouthpiece, one which is a real step-up, not a slide-backward.

(No, don't think a Metalite is gonna be any better; I would cut my losses right now and don't go down the Rico path any further)

Hite Premier
Brilhart Ebolin
Bari Esprit

...are typically suggested step-ups from a Yama.

The Brilhart will be the brightest one, the Hite actually produces a Meyer-like warmth which is probably not where you wanna go. The Bari in the middle.

Interesting you could find new Brilhart Ebolins everywhere up until the summer....but now, oddly, everyone seems sold out except a couple on Amazon...but those are definitely brighter than a Yama.

Another respectable alternative would be a Runyon (88, Jazz or Plastic series)...pretty inexpensive, good if your horn is not a vintage one, and certainly brighter and more cutting than a Yama. Sax Alley has some used ones, Weiner music seems to have a few new ones, and ChrisB's may have a few new ones left....

 

[turf3]

OP, you need to look at quality mouthpieces.

I'd have a look at the Vandoren line; their HR pieces run from "slightly bright French school" which is probably similar to what you're on now, to high baffle pieces. Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with the product line to give specific recommendations. Quality control will be excellent. Selmer Soloist is also a good choice, tending a bit toward the "slightly bright French School" but flexible.

Personally I can't imagine wanting anything brighter than a Meyer on alto once you learn how to blow through it. Don't make the mistake of thinking a buzzy reed-filled duck call sound is giving you projection. If you work to develop a compelling rich projecting sound on a conventional piece (Meyer, Vandoren, Brilhart Ebolin) you won't need or want the other. Those conventional pieces allow you the flexibility to provide different kinds of tone as needed, whereas the other types tend to force you into the one thing they do.

 

[Sigmund451]

Turff...funny thing about the slightly bright French School...I thought the same thing when I moved here. I cant make enough dark pieces! I think Eruope got that reputation because they had little to chose from given high import taxes and tarriffs. My fingers are tired!

yes.. OP, find a good mouthpiece...what you have is not.

 

[Bart56]

Good advice as usual @JayeLID. I'm tired of fighting it and returning it. I'll look for the others you mention.
Thanks

 

[ajarndontree]

Good advice as usual @JayeLID. I'm tired of fighting it and returning it. I'll look for the others you mention.
Thanks

The bottom line is you get what you pay for. Although I am able to get a decent jazz tone out of my Graftonite that I use to introduce my 7th and 8th grade jazz band students to mouthpieces with a larger tip opening, I would never play it on a gig because I have a Meyer 6M which produces a fantastic tone and a Phil Tone which is what I use when I want more of a vintage/dark sound and a Phil Barone metal piece I use for the funk gigs where I need that extra volume and projection. A mouthpiece for every occasion. Stay on sotw long enough and you will become a mouthpiece junkie like the rest of us. LOL But again, the bottom line is you get what you pay for.

 

[JayeLID]

I agree...but asterisk it with: there are fair number of good mouthpieces in the $30-75 range available, ones which perform fundamentally quite fine and offer a pretty good range of tonality and response.....a few of which I actually prefer to say, some $150-ish ones.

The Ricos, however, are NOT in the former club.

 

[1saxman]

And is far as fitting the cork, every mouthpiece is different and there is no 'standard' shank inside diameter. Your problem is the same as any other sax player when messing around with mouthpieces. You have to decide which one you're going to play and get the cork adjusted accordingly. In your case since the new mouthpiece is tight, sand the cork a little to make it easier to get on. Then, for your previous mouthpiece, maybe it will still fit well enough to play or you can wrap the cork with Teflon plumber's tape. This comes right off for switching mouthpieces but you can see that you ultimately have to settle on one or the other.

 

[Bloo Dog]

Bart56:

Have you run a leak light through your instrument? Some of the the problems that you describe could be attributed to a leaky pad or pads.

I find the Graftonite C5 and C7 on alto to be good players. You don't need to spend a lot of money to get a mouthpiece that plays well. If you have specific needs or if there's a specific sound that you are looking for, you might want to look for a custom-made mouthpiece, but there are limits to what you should spend to get the result that you want.

Before you embark on an expensive mouthpiece spending spree, buy a leak light and check out how your pads seal.