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Acorn Cleveland Alto, Vito Tenor
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
OK, well, yeah it's a good model. It will most definitely NOT play up and down smoothly, though, so do be prepared for $200+ worth of repair work (if you are lucky).

That's the thing about auction horns....even IF the seller claims it plays, it needs work 90% of the time.
For a horn which seller made no claim of playability...again, expect that you will have to invest in making it so.

A reliable workhorse horn, very very popular...a bit soul-less, IMHO compared to an old King, Buescher, Conn, etc.

But again, very respectable.

In cleaned and serviced shape, no significant body issues, playing up and down, with case - these have a current market value of around $700 (yes, really...folks who claim otherwise have NOT been keeping abreast of current values).
So if you are one who gauges success based upon "only invest a total of what it is currently worth"...then there's your yardstick.
Thanks for your observations. Yes, I still see postings from people who bought good horns a couple of years ago who can't imagine that current prices are way more now. And yeah, if my "investment" goes over $700-ish I have lost the wager, I think.
 

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That horn will outperform anything you can get for a lot more. I wasn't exaggerating when I said I preferred mine to some other very pricey horns. Dang that thief. When you get yours rebuilt, be sure to get the key openings set to factory specs.

I am envious.
 

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Acorn Cleveland Alto, Vito Tenor
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Wow! Just got notice that the shipping process has been started. Didn't expect any action today. They are using FedEx, but probably the 20 mule team service level, so it absolutely, positively WON'T be here overnight. :) Hoping the package doesn't sound like a box of rocks.
 

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Acorn Cleveland Alto, Vito Tenor
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
That horn will outperform anything you can get for a lot more. I wasn't exaggerating when I said I preferred mine to some other very pricey horns. Dang that thief. When you get yours rebuilt, be sure to get the key openings set to factory specs.

I am envious.
Can I do a search on YTS-21 key heights or something like that, or should any tech have them?
 

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Can I do a search on YTS-21 key heights or something like that, or should any tech have them?
I would NOT assume the horn needs a complete going-over. I'd take it to a shop and say "what does this need to get it playing?" Now since this is one of the most common student instruments on earth, any decent repair shop has seen thousands of these and their close relatives (the YTS series). Despite the tendency to default to "total overhaul" here on the internet, I bet what it needs is several pads corks and felts and some attention to regulation, to be playing well top to bottom.

Get through that and then see if you want to do the full-metal-jacket overhaul thing. These Yamaha student horns are the equivalent of the Powerglide transmission:

Our old joke back in the day when I was in Corvair circles about the Corvair Powerglide 2 speed automatic was that you find the old car in the field, drag it home behind your F-250, do a complete engine rebuild, all new brake system, all new rubber gaskets around the windows and doors, 4 new radial tires, fix a couple rust spots and repaint, new interior and carpet - and then you pull out the tranny dip stick and there's a couple drops of weird-colored tar-like stuff on the end. Whaddya do for the transmission?

Put about 5 quarts transmission fluid in that sucker and DRIVE it. It'll be fine!
 

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Acorn Cleveland Alto, Vito Tenor
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Wild guess - I bet about a .100" to .105" tip opening would suit you on tenor... Perhaps with a 2.5 strength reed. The tip opening does not tell the whole story when it comes to resistance, but that ballpark would likely suit you. You'll definitely need to do some trial and error.
To my untrained mind that seems kinda big. I guess I'm afraid that the larger air volume needed for the tenor might tax my still-newbie-ish lungs. But I have no reference, except to note that a Yamaha 4C piece is about .67".
 

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Given you play a Meyer 7 on alto, and a large chamber to boot, a similar size on tenor should be fine. In Otto Link sizes, that would be 6* to 7*, or 0.095” to 0.105”. In other words about 20% larger than alto. I play a 6 or 7 tip on alto, and a 7* on tenor, this gives me an equivalent feel between horns.

Also, I play a hard rubber piece on alto, and a metal piece on tenor, so the size in my mouth is similar. A Link STM (metal) is only a little above $200, but you may have to try several to find a good one. The trick to getting a good sound, speaking as one who made the adjustment to tenor coming from alto, is take more mouthpiece in and loosen your chops.

Good luck getting your new horn into playing shape, sounds like you are well on your way to having a whole new set of tonal colors to play with!
 

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Acorn Cleveland Alto, Vito Tenor
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Given you play a Meyer 7 on alto, and a large chamber to boot, a similar size on tenor should be fine. In Otto Link sizes, that would be 6* to 7*, or 0.095” to 0.105”. In other words about 20% larger than alto. I play a 6 or 7 tip on alto, and a 7* on tenor, this gives me an equivalent feel between horns.

Also, I play a hard rubber piece on alto, and a metal piece on tenor, so the size in my mouth is similar. A Link STM (metal) is only a little above $200, but you may have to try several to find a good one. The trick to getting a good sound, speaking as one who made the adjustment to tenor coming from alto, is take more mouthpiece in and loosen your chops.

Good luck getting your new horn into playing shape, sounds like you are well on your way to having a whole new set of tonal colors to play with!
Thanks for that reference point. Note that I don't claim to play the Meyer 7 (or any mpc) well, and it was probably a premature stretch to get it this soon. But curiously I now favor it over the Windy City Jazz Classic .075" I was using before that. Yes, I am looking forward (perhaps way forward, depending on the initial condition of the horn) to making some tenor noises.

Tenor was actually my introduction to sax, having been moved from clarinet in junior high (7th grade). They gave me the horn and a fingering chart. That was it. So I think I never developed a proper embouchure. In 8th grade I was switched again to baritone. Couldn't do the low notes very well, but played that all through high school.
 

· Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
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Thanks for your observations. Yes, I still see postings from people who bought good horns a couple of years ago who can't imagine that current prices are way more now. And yeah, if my "investment" goes over $700-ish I have lost the wager, I think.
Well...honestly I would have NEVER expected a Tenor model which in 2019 cost around $500 in playable shape to now have a market value of $700-750...but that's what happened, so who knows what it will be in 2026 ?

Incidentally, I wasn't suggesting the horn needs a full repad or O/H, I doubt it does....70% of used project horns really do NOT...and from the pics thos one doesn't seem to have been abused. So my guess is...$200 or so will get it speaking up and down acceptably.

"Lost wager" ....depends on your perspective. Many people here - including I - who have experience in purchasing used horns do not abide by the notion: "you have taken a loss if you invest more into it than its current resale value". That's an arguable position.
 

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Tenor, alto, Bb Clarinet, Flute
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OK, well, yeah it's a good model. It will most definitely NOT play up and down smoothly, though, so do be prepared for $200+ worth of repair work (if you are lucky).

That's the thing about auction horns....even IF the seller claims it plays, it needs work 90% of the time.
For a horn which seller made no claim of playability...again, expect that you will have to invest in making it so.

A reliable workhorse horn, very very popular...a bit soul-less, IMHO compared to an old King, Buescher, Conn, etc.

But again, very respectable.

In cleaned and serviced shape, no significant body issues, playing up and down, with case - these have a current market value of around $700 (yes, really...folks who claim otherwise have NOT been keeping abreast of current values).
So if you are one who gauges success based upon "only invest a total of what it is currently worth"...then there's your yardstick.
Ohhhhhh! You said it was soul-less. Better watch it or all the Yamaha guys are going to fun you off the internet. (joking)

;)

By the way I agree with George (JayeLID) about how much is it worth investing in an old horn. Unless you are in the business of flipping horn what difference does it make. If you invest a couple of hundred dollars more in a horn than you could sell it for it's really not a concern until you try to sell it. And if the horn serves your needs then what's a little cash compared to the satisfaction of restoring something to its purpose.

Wow! Just got notice that the shipping process has been started. Didn't expect any action today. They are using FedEx, but probably the 20 mule team service level, so it absolutely, positively WON'T be here overnight. :) Hoping the package doesn't sound like a box of rocks.
I've bought a couple of horns off Shopgoodwill.com. I always call the store and ask the manager to make sure it's packed right. On one I actually emailed the manager a YouTube video on how to pack a saxophone. They did a great job. Of course each store is separate from the others and it depends on who you get ahold of on the phone but my experience with the stores has been positive overall.
 

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Acorn Cleveland Alto, Vito Tenor
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
My remark about losing the wager was simply to note that the cost of purchase + Good Playing Condition servicing on this sax could exceed the cost of an arbitrary sax already in GPC. It's a risk I decided to take. If it ultimately means I spend more money, then so be it. As you said, it's not a concern as long as it meets my expectations. Frankly, I could more than double the purchase expense before I get into the price range of an already playable horn.
Yes, I should have contacted the store to ask about packing, but I didn't. I learned today that it will be delivered tomorrow. Quicker than anticipated; good, it means a shorter period of anxiety! 😓 Actually, I'm not anxious, rather a little excited. I bought a box of reeds today, just in case the horn is "playable out of the box".
I will post something about the arrival, but don't expect a live stream! 🙄
 

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I got a very similar Vito saxophone from Shopgoodwill, but the alto version. I prefer a different alto that I also got from that site. But I like the Vito 4C mouthpiece that came with the saxophone. It seems to be shaped exactly like a modern 4C except for very thin tip rails. I don’t know if Yamaha changed the design over the years, or if there was a difference between Yamaha 4C and Vito 4C mouthpieces. Or if the mouthpiece was treated roughly enough to wear down the tip rail.
 
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