[Ferlas Soram]

Hey,

I'm looking to buy some good jamey aebersold play alongs for me to improv with. I'm not that great at improving. I'm a junior in high school, I wouldn't say I have no experience but i'm definitely not that great. And I hardly know anything about chord changes ( i can play in one chord but switching creates a problem). I'm buying mark levine's jazz theory book. Any other suggestions?
(Easy keys are great - Am 7, Gmin 7, etc.)
Thanks.

 

[bluesaxgirl]

http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Improvisation-Sax-Lennie-Niehaus/dp/B000M6Z002

I feel like this book is in the library of many serious sax players. You should go for it!

 

[Ferlas Soram]

I actually own a couple other lennie neihaus books. Thanks!

 

[Fltenor]

While am no teacher or professional sax player (hobbyist-late bloomer), I have been taking private lessons, after a 21 year hiatus, for the past 2 1/2 years. For the past 6 months, after going through the Rubanks books my teacher recommended Andy Mc Ghee's book "Improvisation for saxophone". Since then our lessons consists mostly on playing jazz tunes from the Real Book and improvising over them. A lot of the tunes he has given me to start improvising on, casually are contained in Vol 54 (Maiden Voyage-fourteen easy tunes to play). I believe Aebersold also advertises this Vol as a good way to start. On my own, I have also read Levine's Jazz theory book which I found helpful to understand some of the theory but to be honest improvising is more about playing than reading. Last night (during my private lessons) my teacher told me that in "jazz improvisation class at College" he was pretty much given some tools (told about patterns, ideas, voice leading, etc) but ultimately improvising was up to themselves. By the way he is a monster improviser. He also told me that they would mostly give them blues tunes for them to improvise over. In my limited experience slow blues on easy keys is indeed a good way to start as well. Another good book which is a bit simpler to read and has helped me some would be "Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony" or for free you could get Aebersolds "Jazz handbook" which is a good short reference.

Hope this helps.

 

[Martinman]

or for free you could get Aebersolds "Jazz handbook" which is a good short reference.

I'd highly recommend this short and free book. There is a wealth of information contained here, and should be enough to get anyone started on the very basics of improv.

 

[Ferlas Soram]

Would you guys recommend I start reading Mark Levine's book first or "Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony"?

Edit: I have the red book. It's just making sense of it thats hard, like connecting hte chords.

 

[OttoVanFrankenLink]

Get an Ipod or if you have an Iphone download the IRealbook. I turn off the "piano", "drums" settings and just use the bass lines. It's mechanical sounding BUT it doesn't ever rush or slow down... turn the beat around... have the wrong time in the count ins and you can adjust the tempo AND KEY!. I wish I had this tool when I was a kid. Aebersolds are pretty brutal in too many ways to list in this thread (someone should start a why Oversolds blow thread). Nothing replaces real musicians or recordings but Irealbook at least replaced Aebersold for me.

 

[gary]

I think the usual progression, of play-alongs is:

vol2 "Nothin But Blues"

vol 54 "Maiden Voyage" or vol 5 "Time to Play Music"

Those are pretty much easy to intermediate and will give you plenty of enjoyable playing time.

If you're really not familiar at all with the basic tools of improvisation, you'd probably benefit by getting first, Aebersold's Vol 1. "How to Improvise Jazz".

BTW, for a beginning improvisor, I totally disagree with kyotosession's post on two fronts. First for a beginner, playing tunes with multiple chord changes and with only the bass line as a reference? Are you serious? And secondly, I'd be glad to discuss anytime the subject of Aebersolds.

 

[Ferlas Soram]

Can you explain why you don't think they're good? I was under the impression that it was the best scenario for someone who doesn't have a rhythm section at their whim, which is like everyone.

 

[Fltenor]

I would start somewhat simple on theory. You could start with either one (perhaps the Levine being more complete, the Connecting chords a bit simpler but to the point) with the understanding that theory has its limitations in the initial stages of improvisation. For instance (again speaking as a beginner improviser) I know most of my major scales with its modes and lydian augmented plus whole tone, practice my chords, patterns etc, know some theory (I have read the three books I have recommended plus Jazzology) but still at the end of the day my improvisation is mostly horizontal (scalar), kind of simple, uninteresting and perhaps unintended. What I mean by unintended is that even when the notes match with the chords (they don't sound out of place, and sometimes they are too in place) I still play randomly, using a lot of roots and perhaps 3rd etc. In my short experience this is a life long process that needs commitment and a lot of patience. I hope this makes some sense.

 

[milnak]

If you're learning improvisation try these (probably in this order):

001 - HOW TO PLAY JAZZ & IMPROVISE
002 - NOTHIN' BUT BLUES
003 - THE iiV7I PROGRESSION
021 - GETTIN' IT TOGETHER
024 - MAJOR & MINOR
042 - BLUES IN ALL KEYS
047 - I GOT RHYTHM - CHANGES IN ALL KEYS
054 - MAIDEN VOYAGE
057 - MINOR BLUES IN ALL KEYS
084 - DOMINANT 7TH WORKOUT

 

[gary]

If you're learning improvisation try these (probably in this order):

001 - HOW TO PLAY JAZZ & IMPROVISE
002 - NOTHIN' BUT BLUES
003 - THE iiV7I PROGRESSION
021 - GETTIN' IT TOGETHER
024 - MAJOR & MINOR
042 - BLUES IN ALL KEYS
047 - I GOT RHYTHM - CHANGES IN ALL KEYS
054 - MAIDEN VOYAGE
057 - MINOR BLUES IN ALL KEYS
084 - DOMINANT 7TH WORKOUT

Vol 54 is much friendlier for a beginning/intermediate player than most of the volumes above it on the list. Also, just to be clear, that list is not for the OP's immediate needs. That's a multi-year list.

 

[Pete Thomas]

(Easy keys are great - Am 7, Gmin 7, etc.)

You do know that these aren't keys? They are chords.

I'm not a big fan of Aebersolds in general (they do tend to teach people that chords are scales, or scales are chords)

However when I was teaching jazz theory at uni, I got hold of a set an made a note of the better ones, see:

http://tamingthesaxophone.com/jazz-playalong-CDs.html

The ones marked with * are what I recommend.

The Alfre Mastertracks is good, much better than most Aebersolds IMO.

Godd luck.

 

[gary]

The Alfre Mastertracks is good, much better than most Aebersolds IMO.

Right. That's "Alfred" (typo). I've heard a few and they just make me want to play more the some of the Aebersolds. But there are so many Aebersolds, one can't really generalise, IMO. And the Aebersolds have a huge selection.

Also, don't the Alfreds have tracks where someone is playing the head? That's good for people who need that. For me, that just takes up more background time for blowing that I'm paying for and not using, so that's a minus for me, while the Aebersolds usually give a fair amount of blowing space.

But again, I agree. The few Alfreds I've heard were just cleaner sounding, and energetically played.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Also, don't the Alfreds have tracks where someone is playing the head?

Not the one I have, it's just backing tracks. I feel much more comfortable with them than with most Aebersold rhythm sections.

 

[jlima]

I'm also not a big fan of Aebersolds, I have almost the whole collection but when I practice what I use is my own tracks made with Band-in-a-Box. The Aebersolds never leave the shelf.

 

[gary]

I'm also not a big fan of Aebersolds, I have almost the whole collection but when I practice what I use is my own tracks made with Band-in-a-Box. The Aebersolds never leave the shelf.

Well, obviously the Aebersolds are by humans and BIAB is mechanical and it sounds like it. But what I did for several years, is when I had a few moments here or there - and I did this often - would be to sit down at my computer and just pick a tune from the Real Book and play it from BIAB. And as we all know, you can change they keys and tempos of the BIAB playbacks, so I'd just sit at my computer, horn in hand, and have at it. Like I said, it's mechanical but it has its use.

 

[jlima]

Well, obvioulsy the Aebersolds are by humans and BIAB is mechanical and it sounds like it. But what I did for several years, is when I had a few moments here or there - and I did this oftern - would be to sit down at my computer and just pick a tune from the Real Book and play it from BIAB. And as we all know, you can change they keys and tempos of the BIAB playbacks, so I'd just sit at my computer, horn in hand, and have at it. Like I said, it's mechanical but it has its use.

With the Real Tracks option it actually sounds not so mechanical, but rather very realistic, in my opinion. Also, there are so many mistakes in the Aebersold books, both in the written melodies and in the chords.
And Aebersold has a MECHANICAL way of teaching jazz in those books.

 

[FawltyTenor]

FWIW, I find the Aebersold and BIAB tools both to be very useful for me. If I could only have one, I'd probably go with BIAB because of all the flexibility. The JA tracks are a little more enjoyable, but they are the same each time.

I like a number of those earlier Aebersold volumes. Another option, is the old Ramon Ricker recordings. There was a blues volume, which not only had a track for each key, but each track had a slow "gutbucket" tempo followed by a medium "bebop" tempo. Mel Lewis, Rufus Reid, Harold Maeburn.

Favorite "easy" Aebersold volumes would be the Maiden Voyage one, Vol 3. ii/V/Is, and Vol 24 Major/Minor. Payin Dues and Bossa Novas are good intermediate ones, and of course the original Bird, Miles, Sonny, Herbie, and Ellington ones.

BIAB is great for all of it's flexibility and ease of use. I don't have the "Real Tracks", but with the better quality virtual sound canvas (or better sound card) the sounds aren't terribly cheesy. There's tons of tunes already in the Yahoo BIAB file archive, or just type in the chords, and your ready to practice in a few mouse clicks. So easy to change styles, keys, tempo, instrumentation, etc. etc.

Btw, as far as Aebersolds teaching methodology, I think sometimes this whole chord/scale thing gets overblown. First of all, as far as developing their own approach to improvisation, I don't know how many people follow the booklets that closely anyhow. Also, there is a pretty good focus on chord tones and ear training in some of the volumes (e.g. Rhythm changes).

Aren't a lot of the jazz improvisation books (Baker, Coker, etc) somewhat academic? I think it's always balancing what you can pick up by ear off the records and "in the air" with the "method" stuff, and just trying to play what sounds good to you.

 

[OttoVanFrankenLink]

I think the usual progression, of play-alongs is:

vol2 "Nothin But Blues"

vol 54 "Maiden Voyage" or vol 5 "Time to Play Music"

Those are pretty much easy to intermediate and will give you plenty of enjoyable playing time.

If you're really not familiar at all with the basic tools of improvisation, you'd probably benefit by getting first, Aebersold's Vol 1. "How to Improvise Jazz".

BTW, for a beginning improvisor, I totally disagree with kyotosession's post on two fronts. First for a beginner, playing tunes with multiple chord changes and with only the bass line as a reference? Are you serious? And secondly, I'd be glad to discuss anytime the subject of Aebersolds.

Well, yeah, I am serious. The changes are only as difficult as the tune selection and as far as I remember there are chord "drones" and simple exercise progressions provided too. Neither medium is an inspiring way to practice, but it is for the purpose of practice and not performance.

IMHO playing with artist recordings over tunes, is better than either IRealbook or Aebersold, regardless of skill level - but then again, what do I know?

I'm not absolutely rallying against Aebersold, I'm just relieved that there is an option that doesn't rush, play tunes you want to learn in ridiculous tempos, time feels, with reinterpreted changes, and a blaring cheese fed organ... etc.

If you dig Aebersold I won't hold it against you but I don't want to get in an in depth discussion about it either!:mrgreen: