[7notes]

Curious to see what others' experiences have been if anyone's moved to a smaller tip opening, on a mouthpiece that's the same as or similar to their regular piece. I usually play a 7*. I already had two of the same mouthpiece (Saxscape SL) in that size, and as an experiment I had the second one opened to an 8*. Afer a couple of years, I've concluded 8* is too big, and I'm now thinking of having it closed down to a 6*. Has anyone else made the move to a smaller opening? What are the pros and cons? Thanks.

 

[Grumps]

Well, once a mouthpiece has been altered, you never know if it's the tip opening or the alteration that made it more unplayable for you. So best not go back and alter it again. Spending good money for bad, you know.

Next time you want to try a piece with a different tip opening, just get one in original condition that's either more open or less open, and then sell or trade the ones you don't favor if unable to return them to the seller. Trying to unload an altered mouthpiece for anywhere near what you put into it is near impossible. A tough sell even when heavily discounted as well.

 

[milandro]

there are several threads about closing the tip opening to a smaller zize, i could quote the titles but one answer from a real pro refacer I think is going to tell you what the problems of doing such a thing are

The table gets .005"-.010" thinner. There is almost always enough material that this is not an issue. The baffle comes up .005"-.010" but can be lowered back down as desired. The real issue is that the facing becomes a lot shorter and has a kink in it where it meets the newly sanded table. So the entire facing curve has to be reconstructed. If the tip rail was real nice to begin with, it can be kept that way. The table and side rails get a little wider but can be trimmed back to the width of a standard reed. They may have not been a good width to begin width anyway.

 

[Sigmund451]

its not necessarily a problem and with the job done properly it should play well. However, it may have significantly different character. For instance, a 6star link sounds different than one that is 8star. Its got a different buzz. Tip opening does impact color and tone. So the only negative is you may not like it as well. On the flip side you may like it better. There are a number of link players who prefer smaller tips sonically. Also, you are changing the angle of the table so that has an impact as well.

 

[7notes]

Well, once a mouthpiece has been altered, you never know if it's the tip opening or the alteration that made it more unplayable for you. So best not go back and alter it again. Spending good money for bad, you know.

Next time you want to try a piece with a different tip opening, just get one in original condition that's either more open or less open, and then sell or trade the ones you don't favor if unable to return them to the seller. Trying to unload an altered mouthpiece for anywhere near what you put into it is near impossible. A tough sell even when heavily discounted as well.

Yes, economically it doesn't make much sense. Selling the 8* and looking for a 6* would be best although these pieces in a 6* aren't the easiest to find.

 

[7notes]

its not necessarily a problem and with the job done properly it should play well. However, it may have significantly different character. For instance, a 6star link sounds different than one that is 8star. Its got a different buzz. Tip opening does impact color and tone. So the only negative is you may not like it as well. On the flip side you may like it better. There are a number of link players who prefer smaller tips sonically. Also, you are changing the angle of the table so that has an impact as well.

True - I might like it better...or not! I was thinking more of the implications for my embouchure and airstream - would the smaller tip lead (or force) me to loosen my embouchure, lower my pitch center, and/or alter my airstream...? But I see your point that there are many interrelated variables that make it hard to do an experiment that changes only one and leaves all the others unchanged.

 

[7notes]

there are several threads about closing the tip opening to a smaller zize, i could quote the titles but one answer from a real pro refacer I think is going to tell you what the problems of doing such a thing are

Thanks for this on-point quote from Mojo. I've actually had him reface other mps of mine, with great results, so I would have complete confidence that he could rework my 8* as needed down to a 6*. However, the 8* happens to have been refaced by another highly regarded refacer, so if I do this I'd most likely send it back to the original refacer, with the understanding that it's not as simple as merely sanding the table down with no other changes.

 

[JL]

deleted.. I answered my own question for the OP.

 

[Dr G]

True - I might like it better...or not! I was thinking more of the implications for my embouchure and airstream - would the smaller tip lead (or force) me to loosen my embouchure, lower my pitch center, and/or alter my airstream...?

Probably not - on the other hand, if you recognize that those aspects need work, you can do that with your current 7* and see where that takes you. You may not NEED a 6*.

P.S. I've been through all this - big tip openings (.130") and small (.085") - and have returned to a 7*, where I began with my first STM in the early '70s.

 

[7notes]

Probably not - on the other hand, if you recognize that those aspects need work, you can do that with your current 7* and see where that takes you. You may not NEED a 6*.

P.S. I've been through all this - big tip openings (.130") and small (.085") - and have returned to a 7*, where I began with my first STM in the early '70s.

Thanks Dr. G. That's actually encouraging.

Let me add that your avatar is one of the most eye-catching, and disturbing, ones around

 

[1saxman]

You're welcome to go in any mouthpiece direction you want but don't try to do it with the same mouthpiece.

 

[wanderso]

For almost six months have loved the sound from my tenor HR 7* Slant Legacy (with JSF 3soft reeds) but my new teacher thought with a smaller tip I'd possibly have more control and pitch stability. So Matt made me a 6*, but now he's using a slightly different blank compared with three years ago. On first several blows I thought it sounded thin and shrill with 3soft and the first few 3hard reeds. But now after about a week (and after I opened up the shank bore a bit so it doesn't squeeze the cork so much that the 7* then falls off) I find it essentially similar to the 7*.

However, with respect to the original reason for trying something new, I don't have any more air for my articulation exercise on bell notes and I can't perceive that my control is any better with 6* vs. 7*. I guess I could still try harder and harder reeds until I can't play a certain strength; maybe the 6* really wants a 4soft or 4medium to make its thickest, warmest tone...

But mostly I answered the big question--will I play better with a smaller tip? Nope. So I can keep working hard with the wonderful gear I already have and be confident the problems all lie on the lips side of the assembly. I began playing tenor with a 7* and 3 reeds, seems to be the middle-of-the-pack set-up, and there I am still.

 

[7notes]

You're welcome to go in any mouthpiece direction you want but don't try to do it with the same mouthpiece.

? What does "don't try to do it with the same mouthpiece" mean? Do you mean get a new mpc in the tip opening I want, rather than having the tip opening changed on one I already own?

 

[7notes]

Thanks wanderso, that kind of personal experience in playing different sizes is very helpful. Especially since you also brought reed strength into the equation.

 

[Dr G]

Thanks wanderso, that kind of personal experience in playing different sizes is very helpful. Especially since you also brought reed strength into the equation.

The reed strength issue is further confounded by the length of the lay. Yes, if the length stays the same, then a larger tip opening may dictate a softer reed, BUT many mouthpieces vary the length of the lay as the tip opening changes, and a player may use the same reed strength for various tip openings.

FWIW, the difference that I experienced going to smaller tip openings was greatest regarding increased ease of articulation (ex. Lamberson J, from .120" to .100"). Most ever other characteristic was unchanged - resistance, volume, timbre, etc., were all within the realm of changes that could be accomplished by adjusting embouchure and airstream, and selecting reeds.

 

[7notes]

The reed strength issue is further confounded by the length of the lay. Yes, if the length stays the same, then a larger tip opening may dictate a softer reed, BUT many mouthpieces vary the length of the lay as the tip opening changes, and a player may use the same reed strength for various tip openings.

FWIW, the difference that I experienced going to smaller tip openings was greatest regarding increased ease of articulation (ex. Lamberson J, from .120" to .100"). Most ever other characteristic was unchanged - resistance, volume, timbre, etc., were all within the realm of changes that could be accomplished by adjusting embouchure and airstream, and selecting reeds.

Thanks. Articulation is my least important goal (not unimportant, just relative to the other characteristics you mentioned), so I'm getting the sense that it may not be worth the expense and trouble of turning an 8* into a 6*, when I already have a 7* that I'm comfortable with.

 

[Dr G]

Thanks. Articulation is my least important goal (not unimportant, just relative to the other characteristics you mentioned), so I'm getting the sense that it may not be worth the expense and trouble of turning an 8* into a 6*, when I already have a 7* that I'm comfortable with.

I agree - especially since you don't know whether you will like the sound of the twice-refaced piece.

 

[Hassles]

You will find numerous references here at SOTW by long term pro players who went to wider and wider tip openings as their careers progressed to eventually returning to smaller and smaller tip openings with harder / more resistant reeds. So I would suggest a good reed trial with softer / harder reeds before committing your MP to a reface.

 

[7notes]

Fair enough point, Hassles. Although my first teacher played on a 10*. Can’t see myself moving that far 😳 no matter what reed I tried.

 

[milandro]

Old school played huge openings with thick reeds (at time bigger than any production products in both cases)

Nowadays playing on relatively speaking closed mouthpieces and softer reeds isn’t seen anymore as a thing for wimps