[lobe67]

Hello everybody,

I’m writing to you from France. I just sold my Tenor Lady Face , and I m’ looking for a new vintage horn. I sold the Conn because I found it difficult to control ( tonality and dynamics), although I loved the sound of this horn. I decided to give Buescher a try . First because I have a fantastic remember of an alto ( doggy visually) but wich had such an intense and pretty sound. But I the time I tied thi lto I only sworn by Selmer. ( well I still play my soprano M6, which I like very much ). Second, thanks to all the interesting things i red on your forum, It seems that Buescher tenor have that quality that I search : a more centered tone , but keeping that warmth quality of vintage American horns.

Practically , I would like to ask some advices on how to purchase my dream horn, wich would certainly be an early aristocrat tenor or True tone tenor. First possibility I see, is to buy It from ebay, make it send to France or to a relative in the States. Apparently Buescher horns seem to have a constance in quality that put I confidence for a distant purchase ( I would never buy a Selmer this way ; for you can a dog or killer Selmer for the same big amount of money!)
Second possibility take a plane ticket to the big apple, and go around those shops I have heard so much about , and try different horns. : problem is to find the time to do that!
I’ m very tempted to get my horn by a simple click from ebay ! But , I’m not to used buy via ebay ( at least horns) , and I wonder if :the will really get to me, if it will fit the description, etc,…
Thanks in advance for any advices on the purchase method , price, models..

Cheers

Laurent

 

[Neil Sharpe]

Try Gayle Fredenburgh at this link. She's an acknowledged expert in Bueschers.
http://www.vintagesax.com/

[email protected]

850-689-1126

As for particular models, check out the Aristocrat Series 1, the Big B models,
http://saxpics.com/buescher/aristocrat.htm

and the 400 series
http://saxpics.com/buescher/400.htm

Other excellent dealers (in no particular order) include www.worldwidesax.com, www.junkdude.com, www.cybersax.com, and www.saxalley.com.

 

[Grumps]

Yeah, if you're not experienced in buying vintage horns on Ebay, you're setting yourself up for heartbreak. So I'd look into those dealers mentioned.

Just wondering... was it low D on that 10M that had you give it up?

 

[lobe67]

thanks for the replies

Links are intrestings...but this too :

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230176532082&sspagename=ADME:X:RTQ:FR:11

the price being very intresting. I sent-a message to the seller to have a picture of tones holes and pads..but he said the only pictures were on ebay...??What do you think of that? should i give it a try?

"Yeah, if you're not experienced in buying vintage horns on Ebay, you're setting yourself up for heartbreak"

Ok, so where do i start from ?

"was it low D on that 10M that had you give it up?"

Not particularly, it was a general a general feeling of flaoting on a tonal point of view.

Laurent

 

[Grumps]

Ok, so where do i start from ?

Here's a decent site to learn about vintage saxophones: Vintage Saxophone Gallery
You can come here to ask about Ebay auctions, but once you post the link, you alert other potential bidders. It's best to have someone you know offline guide you. You'll get various opinions here, but who do you blame should you get ripped off? There are numerous scams on Ebay, though most are for higher ticket horns (i.e. Mark VI's). I tell folks I spent years lurking on Ebay prior to signing up, and then had a local friend guide me through my first sales. My two main horns both came from Ebay, and I've bought and sold many others. I'm just thankful that I took the time to learn the ropes prior to getting them. One important factor to keep in mind is that virtually all Ebay saxophones, unless sold by reputable dealers, will need a complete overhaul despite what a seller might say otherwise. Yeah, you can get a horn that plays right out of the box (I've sold them), but you really can't expect them to.

 

[JL]

Hey lobe67, that horn on ebay is not a 1914 horn. It looks like an early "Big B" model with the smaller bell (ask the seller if there's a "B" in the engraving to be sure). It has the ribbon guards and bell keys on the left side. A 1914 horn would have split bell keys. Also the serial number places it around 1940. That is a very good vintage, one of the best, but the condition of the horn is rather questionable. I see lots of dents, the seller admits to the "musty" case and probably the pads will have to be replaced. It's definitely a "fixer upper" and if you could get it for that low price it might be well worth it. Just be ready to spend several hundred dollars (at least) on an overhaul. Also, there is no way to know if the original "snap-in pads" are there. I don't think the seller knows much about horns or even knows what he has there. Which could work in your favor.....

However, if you want to save yourself some headaches (as opposed to saving a some money, maybe), go with one of those dealers Neil mentioned. As he said Gayle at vintagesax is a real Buescher expert and has many beautiful horns, ready to play. Check out her website.

Finally, I think you have it right about the Buescher tenors. You can get that big warm sound of the American vintage horns, but a bit more centered and controllable than a Conn......depending on what you are after. In terms of overall dynamics and tone, I find my Buescher Aristocrat tenors outdo my MKVI.

 

[silvin]

You still can come and try mine, Laurent

 

[Dave dix]

thats an early big B from 1940 and will be a superb horn
Dave

 

[lobe67]

thanks to all of youfor the advices ....i will think about it and maybe try a very reasonable offer...

Silvin, thanks a lot for the invitation, i 'll call you this we!

to complete my response on the 10M : i' m not saying at all they are bad horns : some of the most beautifull music has been made on it(the amazing young Rollins , Dexter , Parker, etc,..) I think the main problem comes from its adapation with a large enough chamber mouthpiece.. Most modern mouthpieces are done to fit selmer like tubes wich are much smaller than Conn's, it seems

Laurent

 

[saintsday]

I'd call Dave and see what he wants for this one. https://www.junkdude.com/ProductDetail.aspx?id_product=880. If you want more focus, you may prefer this to the later Aristocrats.

 

[Pinnman]

The eBay sax would be great at a low price; $500 tops. Then have it repaired. If you are happy with the loss of lacquer, I would go for it.

 

[lobe67]

Dave 's tenor looks terrific. I got in touch with him . Ill'try silvin 's tenor wich is of the same period before i make my choice.

laurent

 

[Yellowhorn]

Grumps -

Bring your King to a tech and have him check it for leaks (not only at the lower octave pipe, but the whole horn)! That is what my tech told me is causing the stuffy, wacky D2 sometimes.

 

[Yellowhorn]

Lobe67 -

Check Saxalley's site to see if there is a tenor you like and email Tim for pictures. He is probably the most ethical dealer you can find in the US!

 

[Grumps]

Grumps -

Bring your King to a tech and have him check it for leaks (not only at the lower octave pipe, but the whole horn)! That is what my tech told me is causing the stuffy, wacky D2 sometimes.

Not the King, the Conn; and it's D1 that tends to be unstable, not stuffy. Old issue. Long since figured out. Just asking the original poster if that note was the problem on his 10M.

 

[bruce bailey]

Is the low C pad open enough?

 

[Grumps]

Is the low C pad open enough?

On my 10M? It's open all the way (I bent back the felt holders and glued a cushion to it). As I said, it's an old issue and long figured out. Opening C all the way helps (and low B as well), as does finding a mouthpiece you can work with.

 

[JL]

lobe67, you might also want to keep your eyes out for a slightly later model, either the later Big B (with the bigger bell) or the "156" which is a Big B in all respects except the engraving is different; it has a script-like engraving without the "B." The 156 can often be had at a better price than the Big B, simply because of the different engraving (look for serial # in the 330,xxx to 332,xxx range). They are fantastic horns with a HUGE, fat sound and very responsive.

 

[rispoli]

They are fantastic horns with a HUGE, fat sound and very responsive.

And easier to control and play than a Conn. I think it can be your ticket.
However if you like the spread sound of the 10M maybe you should look into a Buescher 400, not Aristocrat. Or even a Martin (closer in sound to a Conn).

 

[JL]

And easier to control and play than a Conn. I think it can be your ticket.
However if you like the spread sound of the 10M maybe you should look into a Buescher 400, not Aristocrat. Or even a Martin (closer in sound to a Conn).

Good point, about the spread sound. The later Big B & 156 'Crats with the bigger bell do have a fairly open, spread sound, compared to the earlier "Art deco" models, which are more focussed. Still probably not as spread as a Conn.