[playing_is_fun]

I realize the prices of both very high(Jody Jazz and phil barone) but I am willing to take the chance and I wish to get the better one. Which is the better one in your opinion? Can you tell me the sound qualities of both? I would please like some suggestions, opinions, and advice.

Which would help me to get a Coltrane-like sound? Which one is darker, brighter, fuller, louder, etc etc. Please help. Thank you.

 

[Sigmund451]

Which model? If your refering to the ESP vs Barone Jazz or NY Id say go for the Barone. The ESP is a contemporary sounding mpc, IMHO (and I have owned both) the ESP is more limited in tonal color and does not have the range of colors and textures that can be pulled from the Barone. Coltrane played links...you could always get a vintage link. Barone's are modeled after links, the JJ ESP is not at all. I sold my ESP, I still play my Barone. WW&BW sell both. You could always order both and compare.

 

[Scottysax73]

Well, if you wanna sound like Trane, go get the equipment he used.
To me, both mouthpieces are contemporary mouthpieces, so, they will have more edge than an otto link, which i believe Trane used.
I wasnt thrilled bout the Jody Jazz but my Barone was an R & B model. It was great and full of edge.

 

[Rev. D]

Go for the Barone. I play a Jazz 8* and nothing I've tried yet can take its place. But there are so many variables that go into your sound. I play a Ref. 36 (somewhat similar sonically to Coltrane's SBA) and get a really dark sound, which is what I like. Charles Lloyd plays a Barone Jazz on a Conn 10M and sounds much warmer and lighter (not to mention a million times better). I believe Coltrane played a Link with a relatively modest opening (6?) and a pretty hard reed. He was originally an alto player, and to my ear, retained a bit of an alto sound concept on tenor. In the end, alot of it is about your airstream and all the little adjustments you make to get the sound you want. So if you like Coltrane's sound I'd get a relatively closed Barone Jazz or maybe a Lamberson L and then just go to work playing a lot of long tones, working up your chops to be able to handle harder reeds, and just keep listening to recordings and playing along to replicate that sound.

 

[Phil Barone]

Wow, it's great to hear that I'm still a contendor; thanks everyone. I make a lot of different models and I have something for everyone. I can also make a custom made mouthpiece but it's usually not necessary. The Hollywood is a lot like a Link but louder and easier to play.

Most mouthpiece makers don't make round chambers because it's just simply too hard and not cost effective. Also, this may come to a shock to a lot of you but at LEAST half of the mouthpieces made today are not really made by the so called maker. They're what we call "private labeled". For example, someone will put your name on a product as long as you're willing to pay for it. It's a damn shame because they're mostly junk. That's why everyone has such a hard time finding something really good. You actually may be comparing the same mouthpieces with each other but with different names on them. Oh well. Phil

 

[sinkdraiN]

When you listen to all the guys playing Barones you can hear a specific element to the tone that is present in all of them. It is very appealing and one day, when I have the cash- I'd like to own one. I like the Idea of the Hollywood because it is Florida Link-like. They are VERY expensive but one should expect that from a hand-made piece.

 

[Phil Barone]

Actually, the NY and Jazz models are more like Links, the NY being like a great Tonemaster and the Jazz being like a great NY Super Tonemaster. The Hollywood is a lot like a old vintage Bobby Dukoff Charlie Ventura model. I originally made a few for Bob Sheppard but somewhere in the process they came out much more responsive, louder, a little brighter, and VERY free blowing.

Yes, they have a round chamber and they're a freak in that they are just so versitile. An accident of nature. Brecker bought a bunch of these too and he plays it on an album of Kevin Mahogany's. Phil

 

[gary]

I wasnt thrilled bout the Jody Jazz but my Barone was an R & B model. It was great and full of edge.

the ESP is more limited in tonal color and does not have the range of colors and textures that can be pulled from the Barone.

The next mpc I try could very well be a Barone and, Phil if you're reading, thank you so much for your advice.

I just want to emphasize, though, that one really needs to play these mpcs and judge for themselves. I say this because I believe two very fine players who were Barone mpc players are now choosing Jody Jazz mpcs, Laura Dryer and Dino Govoni. I have absolutely no doubt that the above quotes are true for those posting and I might even agree. My point simply being, give them all a try and go with the one you really like the best.

(Admittedly easier said than done

 

[sinkdraiN]

How do the NY and Hollywood differ in terms of tone? The Hollywood is advertised as having a larger chamber but a longer baffle and the NY seems to have a slightly smaller chamber but only a rollover baffle. Which is brighter? Or are they really close?

 

[mountainman]

Barone Hollywood vs Jazz

Thanks Phil for participating in these discussions.You have partially answered my question about the Hollywood based on your earlier post. I am currently playing a stock Link STM NY 7* with Alexander Superial #3 on a Keilwerth Shadow. I am extremely pleased with the ease of playing, the sound, and the volume.

If you can improve upon that I will be dually impressed.I don't know what that improvement will be, but I'll know it when I hear it. I have taken a little razzing elsewhere in the forum for wanting a silver mouthpiece, but I think silver would look better with this horn and if it plays a great its a winner. After 50 years of playing I guess I can have what I want.

We have to look out for the upper end as some pieces that are fine on a brass horn are too bright for this one! With any of the links it has a sweet singing tone which I attribute to the Ni-Ag. Which of the two do you suggest.

 

[Dr G]

I had a silver Jazz 8 (as well as a brass Jazz and several Hollywood and New York models) and can vouch for its fine tone and playability. Highly recommended and no, I won't be among those that razz you for wanting one.

On the other hand, I don't understand your comment about Ni-Ag. If you are referring to nickle silver, it is actually a copper-based alloy whose constituents are Cu-Ni-Zn.

 

[sinkdraiN]

Dr. G- Since you have experience with the Jazz, NY, and Holywood would you be able to describe the differences in tone between them. Because of the price its tough to try them out without purchasing them first. Based on the descriptions I imagine the Jazz to be similar to an STM only maybe a little louder and I imagine the NY to be a louder "V16" type piece. I can not imagine where the Holywood fits in. Am I close?

 

[mountainman]

Barone Hollywood vs Barone Jazz vs NY Link

Yes Dr G I refer to the nickel silver which is really brass with typically 15 to 20 % of the Cu replaced by nickel. Not having a black nickel JK to side by side it appears from my memory to make the upper end of the Shadow a little brighter and sweeter sounding.

I too sinkDrain would like to kinow which of the silver Barone models is closest to the NY Link. I know I will not be happy until I try one. I tested the V16 T95 against the regular STM and the NY and I just didn't work on this horn.

 

[Phil Barone]

Sorry to disagree but Laura still plays my tenor piece, I don't know about alto but I'd be willing to bet she still plays my alto piece too. I made it custom for her and we took days to make it.

Dino lives a couple of miles from me and we ride motorcycles together. No way does he play a Jody, he alternates between mine and a Link. Dino would never play a bright piece, he's a Link guy having studied with Bergonzi. He also uses my soprano piece.

Don't believe the endorsement thing on websites, they're usually not true or outdated. Endorsers switch all the time just like anyone else. Phil

The next mpc I try could very well be a Barone and, Phil if you're reading, thank you so much for your advice.

I just want to emphasize, though, that one really needs to play these mpcs and judge for themselves. I say this because I believe two very fine players who were Barone mpc players are now choosing Jody Jazz mpcs, Laura Dryer and Dino Govoni. I have absolutely no doubt that the above quotes are true for those posting and I might even agree. My point simply being, give them all a try and go with the one you really like the best.

(Admittedly easier said than done

 

[Bill Mecca]

I too sinkDrain would like to kinow which of the silver Barone models is closest to the NY Link. I know I will not be happy until I try one. I tested the V16 T95 against the regular STM and the NY and I just didn't work on this horn.

Steve,

I would suggest visting Phil's website and giving him a call, no one knows better the differences between his pieces than the maker himself.

I spoke with him a number of years ago, doubt he would remember it, and it was an informative conversation, even though he could tell early on I couldn't afford his pieces. He was using the Precision Crafted name at the time.

 

[Phil Barone]

Hey Bill, I remember you. That sure was a LONG time ago. If you'd like, give me a hollar and I'll make you a special SOTW offer. Hope you're well. Phil

 

[gary]

Sorry to disagree but Laura still plays my tenor piece, I don't know about alto but I'd be willing to bet she still plays my alto piece too. No way does he (Dino) play a Jody..

That's interesting. And confusing. I believe Laura wrote a lengthy and highly complimentary evaluation of the ESP in one of the trades, likely Jazz Times or Improvisation mag.

Also, a while back someone posted about going into a club and hearing this fantastic player with a big, wonderful tone. It was Dino and when the guy asked him about his setup he is quoted as saying that he way playing an ESP.

I believe both of these players have posted endorsements on the Jody Jazz's site.

I don't doubt what you're saying, Phil. You go bike riding with Dino and I don't LOL. I'm just confused now as to how does one separates the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Phil Barone]

I'm just confused now as to how does one separates the wheat from the chaff.

Well, you can't. When a new mouthpiece business starts out, or any business for that matter there's a lot of enthusiasm and they hand out free samples. I did it, everyone does it. At this point the person feels that they have to do something in return or that's what I think anyway. That's my exeperience.

Also, uh, how can I say this without being politically incorrect, they love to see their name in an ad, especially when they're unknown. I think it's stupid and it's BS to endorse something you don't play. I even find it dishonest and I personally would never do it. Especially when I did as much for someone as I did for BLANK.

Like I said before, I can't speak for Laura but I'm tight with Dino and I told him that I was unhappy with that. I did an awful lot for him too and I was really shocked when I first saw it but I wasn't terribly upset because his endorsment doesn't have a great impact on my business.

A month or two ago that new French mouthpiece company which I can't remember the name of right now had Jackie Mclean in their ad and I wrote them a nice email asking that they take it out which they did. I called Jackie and he told me that they "kidnapped" him, what a funny guy. A long time ago, about twenty-five years, I had players in my advertising that switched to something different and in the end it does you more harm than good.

What I learned was never give anything away, at least not my stuff since it takes too long to make and there exsists the possibility that they'll give it away or put it in the drawer. I don't give anything away for free, there has to be some payment and this way the player appreciates it more too. Even my friend Ernie Watts pays. I hoped I explained this without offending anyone. Phil

 

[sinkdraiN]

Phil, thanks for your informative posts. Is the NY model brighter or darker than the Holywood? Man, Bob Sheppard sounds amazing on that Holywood.

 

[Phil Barone]

Bob sounds great on anything but to answer your question, I'd have to say that the NY is a tad brighter. Phil