Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
784 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

Just seeking some advice.

I currently have an Armstrong 104 flute but came across a local ad for a Gemeinhardt M2 Flute.

They are asking $75.

I'm still fairly new at flute but really enjoy learning it.
Playing C1 to G3 but still very breathy in the low notes.
Embouchure still needs work.

Any opinions on the M2 or would it be a waste of money?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
Joined
·
5,528 Posts
No. The M2 is the old student model. Go for an M3. I got a nice M3 inline with a sterling head off of eBay for $100 plus shipping. The older Gemeinhardt flutes don't bring that much and the M3 is a great player according to my wife. If it was an offset model, it would probably be her main piece. If you arn't comfortable with the open-holes, you can get plugs for just a few dollars.
 

·
The most prolific Distinguished SOTW poster, Forum
Joined
·
27,650 Posts
I don't know guys. Is there that much added value in buying a low-end (not that they're not good) used flute as contrasted with Bobby keeping the Armstrong, working on developing himself some more, saving up some coins in the meantime, and then going for one of the really fine new "intermediates" like Azumi, the Powell head flutes, a Yamana 300 series or the like?
 

·
Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
Joined
·
17,204 Posts
Forget the M2. Fuzzy, dead tone unless a rare expert works on reshaping the embouchure hole. Almost certainly worse than an Armstrong for low notes.

Save for a Yamaha if you don't like the Armstrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
784 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the advice.

I'll pass on the M2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
BobbyC said:
Thanks for the advice.

I'll pass on the M2.
Even though I am partial to Gemeinhardts that's probably a good idea. :)

You might want to get your Armstrong to a tech to make sure it is
tight though, since I have found them to be fairly solid flutes.

That way you make sure you're not fighting a leak while you work on
your embochure.


mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
784 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I did have a tech check out my Armstrong.
I actually did some work on it myself by replacing some cork and adjusting a few keys.
He played it and I couldn't believe it was the same flute.
So sweet and resonant compared to what I make it sound like.

There is a YFL-221 on craigslist here and it turns out I know the seller.
If she drops the price I'll go for it because as we all know,
you can never have enough instruments laying around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I ordered a Gemeinhardt M2 in relatively good condition. I refuse to believe that it's leaky or any of this nonsense. I'm going to get it in 3 days, and then I will tell you all if it is good.

A flute is a flute. It's interesting the posts I'm reading from 2005 and 2007 on the M2. The flute is 30-40 years old at this point. Of course you're going to encounter plenty that are messed up from years of abuse.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
34,015 Posts
I ordered a Gemeinhardt M2 in relatively good condition. I refuse to believe that it's leaky or any of this nonsense.
OK.

Did you join just to rant about a flute?

G’luck with your purchase.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,154 Posts
"a flute is a flute"

Well, I don't know what your flute background is, but I studied flute at a reasonably high level, standard classical training. Late in high school I largely dropped serious study of flute to concentrate on sax, but I've continued to play flute for the ensuing 40 years. I tell you this to let you know that I have some degree of ability and experience on the instrument.

Like so many others, I started out on an Armstrong "step up" model, solid silver with plated mechanism. At the time it was quite an expensive instrument and probably the next step up would have been a Haynes or Powell - except that back in the 70s both Haynes and Powell had multi-year waiting lists.

Fast forward from the late 70s to the early 90s. This is about when Yamaha started putting out large quantities of high quality student flutes. Several section members in my big band got Yamaha student flutes at the same time (I don't remember what model by number, but they were probably the all-plated version - basically the cheapest open hole model they had at the time). What I remember experiencing was that the inexpensive Yamaha student flutes were far, far, far closer to a professional instrument than my old Armstrong though the Armstrong had been a considerably more expensive instrument. That was the first hint I had that the world of flutes had changed and for the better since the early 70s.

About 20 years ago I went flute shopping. I ended up with an all-plated Miyazawa. This flute is so far superior to the Armstrong, in tone quality, slickness of the mechanism, ease of tone production, etc., that it's not even in the same league. Is it a $15,000 Haynes? Well, no, but it's awfully close.

Now my old Armstrong that today is not even in the running as a student flute compared to a Yamaha or similar, is actually based on the old Haynes Commercial Model. Gemeinhardts, on the other hand, both from reputation and from my experience, don't even have that going for them. All of the student level Gemeinhardts I played on back in the days when student flutes were either Gem. or Armstrong, weren't even as good as the Armstrong (which we thought was a pretty good flute back in 1975). Of course there were always Artleys and Bundys but no one wanted to play those things.

So in my experience it's not true to say "a flute is a flute". Even more than with saxophones, it does matter which one you play, and unlike saxophones, the new ones - if you stay with certain well known makes - are dramatically better than the old ones (leaving out true professional models like Haynes and Powell).

If you really think it's true that "a flute is a flute" I invite you to go test out a current production Powell, Haynes, Sankyo, Muramatsu, or Miyazawa, and then compare it with a nickel plated closed hole Artley from the 1960s.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
34,015 Posts
Turf - Great comments as often, but this person doesn’t even believe in leaks...

I think you just wasted some perfectly good letters that could’ve been saved for other words. Gotta admit tho’, I read your entire post before responding. :bluewink:

Enjoy the day.
 

·
Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
Joined
·
17,204 Posts
... A flute is a flute. ...
That is utterly not true, as Turf3 has explained so politely. It is like saying a drink is a drink, be it muddy water or Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc.

Some cooperate with the player to sing, with loud, beautiful, clear tone, eg a student Yamaha.
As I wrote before, an M2 fights with the player, wanting always to make a reluctant "fuzzy" sound, a bit like the white noise of a toilet flushing. Fine if that is what you want.
IMO M2 was made obsolete by student Yamaha. I am not the only one!

Your 1st post, and this is what you write. Are you a troll?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,937 Posts
OK.

Did you join just to rant about a flute?

G’luck with your purchase.
........
Your 1st post, and this is what you write. Are you a troll?
I was thinking the same thing. It seems like every so often some troll shows up here at SOTW, tosses a stink bomb in and disappears. Usually it's on mouthpiece material, does lacquer matter, vintage vs. modern, or anything having to do with Kenny G. This one seems to have been chucked in from long-range landing in the less frequented and generally polite Flute doubling sub-forum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Though this may well be a troll thread, I wanted to share my experience. I played on a Gemeinhardt M2 for two decades and had a sentimental attachment to it, having studied on it with a wonderful flute teacher in high school.

A couple of years ago, I tried a Yamaha YFL-222, and the difference blew me away. So much easier to play, so much more resonance than the old Gemeinhardt. I upgraded immediately and kicked myself for not doing it earlier.

It's easy to obsess too much over the gear, but there's a risk in paying no attention at all to the improvements that are being made along the way with the instruments, especially at the level of "student" models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Though this may well be a troll thread, I wanted to share my experience. I played on a Gemeinhardt M2 for two decades and had a sentimental attachment to it, having studied on it with a wonderful flute teacher in high school.

A couple of years ago, I tried a Yamaha YFL-222, and the difference blew me away. So much easier to play, so much more resonance than the old Gemeinhardt. I upgraded immediately and kicked myself for not doing it earlier.

It's easy to obsess too much over the gear, but there's a risk in paying no attention at all to the improvements that are being made along the way with the instruments, especially at the level of "student" models.
It's only easier to play because you've been playing on a less ergonomic flute. People who play the old types of flutes with basic holes never had to worry about upgrading their flute. You're mind is gratified that the keys are closer to your fingers, but this isn't going to make you a better player. It's going to make you a lazier one. I can't even afford a newer model flute. I found this M2 for $150 dollars in like-new condition. I wish I could buy a $500 model, but that seems ridiculous for me since I am new to the instrument.

I'm trying to be optimistic here. I want to learn to play the flute, and I don't like reading comments about the M2 being harder to play or that it will implode after a year. Please.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
OK.

Did you join just to rant about a flute?

G’luck with your purchase.
Thanks

I'm new, but that isn't mean I'm a troll guys. Don't be insulting. I am new to the flute world. I'm just waiting for my flute to arrive in the mail in 2 days.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
34,015 Posts
Thanks

I'm new, but that isn't mean I'm a troll guys. Don't be insulting. I am new to the flute world. I'm just waiting for my flute to arrive in the mail in 2 days.
Welcome.

Care to explain what you mean by “a flute is a flute” and “I refuse to believe that it’s leaky or any of this nonsense”?

Did you pause to consider that just perhaps what you said could be insulting to those of us that have been playing a few decades and might have some experience to share?

G’luck with your flute.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top