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Distinguished SOTW Member
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Discussion Starter #1
I posted this on Facebook but figured I’d add it here as well!

I am so sick and tired of people yelling "Snake oil!!!" "Gear doesn't matter!!!!!" "Stop wasting time with this and go practice!!" when someone comments on or asks questions about gear and related accessories (high mass screws, ligatures, klangbogens, etc.) It's not that I'm advocating using all of these things or anything, it's just that some people are just curious and are looking to try different things out. Also NO ONE is saying using saxophone accessories is MORE important than actually practicing.

There are actually people who FEEL and HEAR a difference when using these things. Then some angry guy comes on the post (here or other places) and tells them it's a load of ****** and they're wasting THEIR money. Imagine getting so butthurt about what other people enjoy that you feel the need to hate on it...

On the topic of it actually making a difference, I see people talk about doing blind comparisons and what not. Sure that's fine, but for the most part these items are to make the player FEEL better about their sound and aren't going to necessarily make a huge difference to the listener. Then even if the person says "I know it doesn't make a difference you can hear, but it feels better to me." someone will say "IT'S JUST THE PACEBO EFFECT!!! YOU'RE LIYING TO YOURSELF!!!"

...so if the placebo effect makes someone enjoy what they're playing more, that's a bad thing? ... ... ... wow.

Also, if you're complaining about people spending sooooo much money on it, maybe YOU should start hustling a little more so that $80 won't seem like such a large amount of money ;)

I just think if people want to use these things, more power to them! If you don't, more power to you! But for you to take the time to hate on someone for trying something is...well...very immature.

Rant over...back to smooth jazz/will it play videos :)
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
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I just think if people want to use these things, more power to them! If you don't, more power to you! But for you to take the time to hate on someone for trying something is...well...very immature.
Just in case you are lumping me among the herd, Dave, please recognize that it is a simple us vs them argument. A large number of people that you and others paint as "haters" are decrying the advertising claims. I could care less if you want to buy something. I do care if you are buying something based on false claims - but that is not on the buyer, it is a reaction to the seller.

It is really no different than people who used to be able to comment in the Marketplace when a seller claimed "original lacquer" or "original facing", when it was obvious to an informed person that the claim was untrue - whether due to ignorance or malice.

Play on!
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2010
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3,310 Posts
On the other hand, science matters. The world is rapidly going to **** because too many people act upon their feelings about stuff rather than actually examining facts and making rational decisions about things. Still, if people want to spend their money on stuff they feel will make them play better (or even feel better) who am I to prevent them. You wont find me buying any of that crap, but Im not going to waste too much of my time trying to talk others out of it, a fool and their money are soon parted.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
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18,000 Posts
I would have to echo Dr's sentiments. Sometimes (oftentimes ?) not that folks are 'haters' or trying to rain on someone's parade or anything of the sort. They are just representing valid skepticism...and in some instances raising alternative explanations for the seeming improvement which have little to do with the devices themself (i.e. neck weights change the angle of the mouthpiece-player, so yeah the tone produced may well be different...or ...OK so you had your horn repadded with super-duper ribbed reso-pads and now the horn sounds like a beast. It's the resos ! But... during the repad, horn was also made leak-free and likely things were regulated better as well, no ?....etc, etc).

So a counter-argument to OP's argument might be: what is WRONG with someone chiming in with the Caveat Emptor position ? The fact is (and it is a fact), advertising and marketing folks will produce whatever they can (or are asked to) to get paid.

I do agree - no need to be nasty or snarky when taking the contrary/skeptical position, however.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013-
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... Also NO ONE is saying using saxophone accessories is MORE important than actually practicing.
...
Zat so?

"The Klangbogen™ instantly [emphasis added] increases output and depth of tone of the saxophone while stabilizing the extreme ranges of the horn so it speaks with clarity. ... This enables [emphasis added] the player to achieve a rich saxophone sound with great forward projection and point (focus) to the sound."
 

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SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
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On the other hand, science matters. The world is rapidly going to **** because too many people act upon their feelings about stuff rather than actually examining facts and making rational decisions about things.
+1. Obviously it's not very important whether or not someone wants to believe in some sort of magic device on their horn, especially if it makes them feel like they play better. But on a larger scale, the principle that facts matter is important.

I agree with Dr G in that most of the objection is toward highly misleading, hyperbolic claims in advertising these products, not against those who use them. Most of the 'hate' seems to come from those who believe strongly in the sort of products Dave mentioned and take offense at anyone who shows a bit of skepticism. I think it's a service to at least give some warning to those who might believe some of the claims being made.
 

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Forum Contributor 2016-17
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Just in case you are lumping me among the herd, Dave, please recognize that it is a simple us vs them argument. A large number of people that you and others paint as "haters" are decrying the advertising claims. I could care less if you want to buy something. I do care if you are buying something based on false claims - but that is not on the buyer, it is a reaction to the seller.
^this.
 

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I can talk only from my own experience. I picked up my sax playing just about a year ago after some 30+ years hiatus. I was struggling with my embouchure with the mouthpieces I had from my youth, so I went for a shopping spree especially for my alto. Even though I play basically every day 1-2 hours, I could really not get along with my new mp’s. I was constantly looking for something new. Two months ago, I bought back the soprano that was mine 30+ years ago and I was desperately struggling with new mp’s I bought for it. Then I tried the around 60’s Link that was originally with soprano. That changed everything. I went back to my old Links also on the alto and bari and I’m very, very happy with them now.

What I’m trying to say is that I didn’t realize how much my embouchure had improved and those Links that didn’t work for me earlier were now playing great. So, the promotion of gear might even be basically true. However, you should be very much aware of your own situation when you go shopping. If you’re disappointed with the new product, it may simply be because of the incompatibility between your ability and the gear you bought.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I’m not talking about companies claims- I’m talking about people commenting on other posts where someone says they want to try it out or they give results saying they like it, and how they tell that person they shouldn’t do their own experimentation. That’s all, folks :)

Long live the Chosen One!
 

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On the other hand, science matters. The world is rapidly going to **** because too many people act upon their feelings about stuff rather than actually examining facts and making rational decisions about things. Still, if people want to spend their money on stuff they feel will make them play better (or even feel better) who am I to prevent them. You wont find me buying any of that crap, but Im not going to waste too much of my time trying to talk others out of it, a fool and their money are soon parted.
Jeezus.......stop the presses. I agree with a Canadian!

;-)
 

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So you think people should mind their own business instead of speaking out when they feel something is wrong because it might hurt someones feelings or might be uncomfortable in some way?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So you think people should mind their own business instead of speaking out when they feel something is wrong because it might hurt someones feelings or might be uncomfortable in some way?
No, I’m saying if someone asks a question about something they want to try or has their own evidence why they want to do something, others shouldn’t try to knock them down or take shots. I’m all for freedom of speech, trust me. Have you seen my videos? Hahaha
 

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OK I get you. I guess I just haven't seen any threads where people are getting hassled for using stuff. Most the threads I've seen this stuff being debated were threads that are started with the sole purpose of debating the topic.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
OK I get you. I guess I just haven't seen any threads where people are getting hassled for using stuff. Most the threads I've seen this stuff being debated were threads that are started with the sole purpose of debating the topic.
It’s mostly on Facebook where I’ve seen it. For the most part I don’t click on threads on this site that relate to gear (or most threads in general).
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
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… Two months ago, I bought back the soprano that was mine 30+ years ago and I was desperately struggling with new mp’s I bought for it. Then I tried the around 60’s Link that was originally with soprano. That changed everything. I went back to my old Links also on the alto and bari and I’m very, very happy with them now.…
It's so interesting how that happens. I've had similar experiences. As one's embouchure and skill improves, their mouthpiece needs change… drastically sometimes. Not to mention that our ears get much more discerning as well.
 
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