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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Got an old buescher with 3 frozen rods - (no case, has been sitting out for years). Now I had one guy I worked with who would unsolder one of the posts, pull it apart and then resolder the post. All three of these are short posts and share a common footing. I have heated them to no avail.

Took it to a guy last week. He is suggesting cutting the rod on the un-threaded side, bending it up far enough to slide the key off and then unscrewing and replacing the rod. This would shorten the key sleeve but that slack could be taken up by squeezing the two posts closer together.

Any thoughts or input?
 

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have you tried pentrating oil? something like "Plus Gas" (UK) or PB Blaster (US) apply at both ends of the rod and at any jucntion where key hinges join each other or butt against posts.
A decent correctly sized screwdriver with a good handle for torque helps. also you can determine whether its the thread thats seized or if its binding/ stuck onto keys by putting the screwdriver in the rod slot and keeping the rod still operate the keys that hinge on the rod - if they all move freely then its most likely the thread end thats seized. if its the opposite then you can hold the rod in position and try to help free it by moving the offending key up and down.

In cases like this plenty of penetrating oil over time- days - coupled with a little heat to help draw the oil down the hinge tubing, a little perseverance and the right tools helps.

good luck and let us know how you get on.
 

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Sometimes it does however come o the point where you may have to cut the key off, but definetly exhaust all other options before hand
 

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JS Crescent, JS NOS, Selmer SBA, Couf Superba I, Conn, Buescher, King
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You're going to have to call the fire department and request Best solution is sort of a checklist. This has been covered many times, I think, so a search will probably turn up more details.
 

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^ woops...don't know how that happened. Mod, please feel free to delete that.

Checklist (presuming fail after each step):

- try screwdriver (don't shred the slot, go for a little wiggle, not a turn so much as a little wiggle)

- apply penetrating oil of your choice

- try screwdriver again

- apply more penetrating oil

- heat

- try screwdriver again

- apply pentrating oil and heat again

- try screwdriver again

- apply penetrating oil and heat again

At some point, if this gets old, put the horn aside for a few hours and:

- repeat

If fail again, wait a day and:

- repeat

If fail again, wait a couple of days and:

repeat

If you get a wiggle you're in luck. Keep wiggling and repeating the penetrating oil and heat and wiggling, because eventually the oil is going to work its way all through the key, if you've got it turning in the tube at all.

If that fails, IMO, if you can do it by removing a post, that comes first. Vise grips are the single best option -- most effective grip. There is still a good likelihood that the head of the screw may break off, if that the screw will bend -- you want to avoid both, if possible, but it's a possibility. If they do, there's a whole other list of to dos.

Removing a post and putting it back on (neatly, both cases) is a lot less invasive than cutting a key, imo.
 

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Personally, I have had some pretty rusted, frozen rods, but have never had to resort to cutting or de-soldering. Heat, penetrating fluid, time, a decent screw driver, sometimes using swedging pliers to grip the rod via the tube and move it slightly, the rocking action that griff136 mentioned, and good screw driver skills have always worked.
 

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I've encountered some mighty stuck screws, but using the methods outlined by others above, I have never needed to resort to cutting or de-soldering.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
PB Blaster and patience - well I can give that a go. THe worst one is a corrided mess. THe tip of the rod and the post are just kind of welded together. All three are short rods. One on the neck and the other two on the body. The posts all share a common footing, so they come off together.
 

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^ basement flood, 40 years ago, then left in case and never disturbed for 40 years. The springs were like sand stuck together with dried sugar, and crumbled when gripped with pliers.

One C# post had to be taken off. That's it, I think. My corrosion cracker is the same thing local oil rig workers use to unstick rusted undersea bolts.
 

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Also, fwiw, you are going to see more serious issues with rodscrews being rusted into tubes if you live in a wet climate, or near someone else who swages really badly.
 

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PB Blaster and patience - well I can give that a go. ...
Don't forget the heat and the exceptional-standard screw driver. They are must as important.
 

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i would add that I find a mixture of pentrating oil, heavy oil and heat works very well.
Heat is your main weapon for dealing with impossibly stuck screws - but it's very good at drying out thin, penatrative oils. By alternating between a dose of freeing agent, heat, heavy oil, heat etc. I find the job is far more likely to go well.

Regards,
 

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Have any of you tried seafoam, or deep creap? Its pure petroleum oil and I think it works better than kroil, brake fluid, pb, and ferrees crack....just my two cents
 

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hornfixer - it's a 126K MKVI tenor.

Something that I think hasn't been mentioned: especially with pivot screws, a well placed sharp tap at either the head or base (if rodcscrew, in latter case) will often be the straw that breaks the (stuck) screw's hold.
 

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Took it to a guy last week. He is suggesting cutting the rod on the un-threaded side, bending it up far enough to slide the key off and then unscrewing and replacing the rod. This would shorten the key sleeve but that slack could be taken up by squeezing the two posts closer together.

Any thoughts or input?
Squeezing the two posts together to take up slack from cutting through the key wouldn't be good. The flat part of the post would no longer be flush against the flat part of the hinge tube. The Hinge tube would have to be swedged, or otherwise made longer to take up the gap.
 

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I was given a Hawkes alto which had been in someone's shed for years. all the screws were rusted and the springs were falling apart. In my spare time I would oil it and heat it and wiggle bits to get movement back in the keywork. Gradually it shifted and I could remove some keys. Some rods needed to be knocked through with a smaller bit of drill rod such was the rust. I drilled out a couple of screws but that didn't work too well as a sliver of remaining screw can nold it in place pretty well.
I spent a lot of time with heat and oil but some keys had to be unsoldered and some had to be cut. I used a jewellers saw which is pretty fine and the hinge rod could be swedged back to a good fit quite easily, but hardly any was necessary. The worst part was trying to cut screws where a jewellers saw wouldn't fit.
I used a standard houshold type of screwdriver with a good handle with the tip ground down to fit the screw pretty neatly. It allows for a lot of power to be applied without the flexing a smaller screwdriver will have. Spending some time cleaning up the screw head can be very beneficial. Tapping may work, as mentioned but remember to support posts so you don't bend them over!
 

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^ woops...don't know how that happened. Mod, please feel free to delete that.

Checklist (presuming fail after each step):

- try screwdriver (don't shred the slot, go for a little wiggle, not a turn so much as a little wiggle)

- apply penetrating oil of your choice

- try screwdriver again

- apply more penetrating oil

- heat

- try screwdriver again

- apply pentrating oil and heat again

- try screwdriver again

- apply penetrating oil and heat again

At some point, if this gets old, put the horn aside for a few hours and:

- repeat

If fail again, wait a day and:

- repeat

If fail again, wait a couple of days and:

repeat

If you get a wiggle you're in luck. Keep wiggling and repeating the penetrating oil and heat and wiggling, because eventually the oil is going to work its way all through the key, if you've got it turning in the tube at all.
Great post :) +1
 
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