Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have the Peter Ponzol Keilwerth Tenor and it has great intonation and tone. The problem I am having is when I use the front F to get an E or F, its really flat.

Any ideas?

Thanks
 

·
Moderator
Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
Joined
·
28,876 Posts
Theoretically the opening of that key can be very small, but is still worth experimenting with key height. It could mean adding some cork or temporary bandaid material under the key leaver that operates (should be obvious)

The reason the opening can be low (compared with when used with palm F0 is that it is is acting as a vent (like octave pip) to aid the note which is actually an overtone of A believe it or not.

Another thing to check, are you sure it isn't just flat compared with a sharp palm F?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Pete, I'll try that. Its definitely flat, been using a snark tuner to check :(

I've been playing quite a while and finally decided to get my altissimo going, running up through the front F fingerings which is why I discovered it. Been really struggling, could this have been affecting my ability to hit the altissimo range (he asks hopefully!)
 

·
Moderator
Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
Joined
·
28,876 Posts
Thanks Pete, I'll try that. Its definitely flat, been using a snark tuner to check :(

I've been playing quite a while and finally decided to get my altissimo going, running up through the front F fingerings which is why I discovered it. Been really struggling, could this have been affecting my ability to hit the altissimo range (he asks hopefully!)

I said that about the sharp palm F meaning (if you hadn't been playing a while) it might be possible that the palm F actually is sharp due to open key height, but you were actually playing it flatter (ie in tune) due to not enough air support.

Hence when you play the front F it would be flat compared to the palm. But you can ignore that if you are sure this is not the case.

IT might be worth (if just for fun) trying my fake aux F fingering: https://tamingthesaxophone.com/auxiliary-front-f
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,445 Posts
Front E and F are weird. Depending on the individual instrument, I find that some of mine prefer a higher opening of the pad and some prefer a lower opening.

Theoretically, the F should be achieved by overblowing a Bb, but the front high F fingering actually overblows an A. I think that's because the pad is so big compared to the tiny little vent that's all that's required, that it drives it a half step sharp compared to what you would expect.

I have found that pad height DOES affect tuning of the high E and F even though theoretically it shouldn't.

You may have to do some experimenting with pad heights both when using the palm keys and the front key. In my experience, most horns I have tried or bought, arrived in my hands with palm key pad heights way way way too high. If all of your instruments including this one have the palm key pads set wide open, you may unconsciously be lipping those notes down and now it's catching you on this one horn because of "something" different about the front key on this one.

Try working your way up to the E and F purely by overblowing, not using the front key at all. What is the intonation of these two notes when played this way, as compared to using the front fingering?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,004 Posts
The reason that the front F is a sharp 2nd partial of A is that the overtones get really "wonky" when you are dealing with such a short tube. Check the pitch of the palm keys notes played without the octave key to see what I mean. There is an other aspect that is not often discussed, but may provide a solution is to play lower on the mouthpiece input pitch. This causes the mouthpiece to go further onto the cork to bring the sax up to A=440 and changing the length of the "tube" has a greater effect upon the "short tube" notes, ie. the palm keys.
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top