Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,985 Posts
A serial number photo could help a lot.
Not really. Con maintained separate catalogs for their stencil production, and these were lost in the factory fire decades ago. The serial number on this horn will not correspond to the number vs. date of manufacture listings found online today as a result.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013-
Joined
·
5,431 Posts
Not really. Con maintained separate catalogs for their stencil production, and these were lost in the factory fire decades ago. The serial number on this horn will not correspond to the number vs. date of manufacture listings found online today as a result.
I thought a lot of these followed the "P" numbering system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,045 Posts
Some better photos of the keywork would be helpful, with particular regard to the LH little finger table, the palm keys and the the octave key mechanism, It seems to have mixed NWII and 10M keywork, just like a 16M; I'm betting it's a straightout 16M stencil. I take Saxismyaxe's point two posts above this one, but the serial number might be of some use after all: check the ongoing threads about 16M serial numbers here at SotW.

It's a fine-looking horn, by the way: if it plays as well as it looks, don't be in too much of a hurry to sell it.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
3,951 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
3,951 Posts
Some unusual details but otherwise looks very Conn. Here's another one that is badged "Hamilton"

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hamilton-P...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I agree this Hamilton is Conn. Pinky table nails it. Both look extremely close (pic of pinky table would help) to each other. It’s definitely not Martin. So according to this stencil list Buescher could be another option? I Have not compared the OP to Buescher.
https://schooloftherock.com/html/stencil_saxophone_list.html
Anyone have another stencil list reference?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
Joined
·
18,000 Posts
Not really. Con maintained separate catalogs for their stencil production, and these were lost in the factory fire decades ago. The serial number on this horn will not correspond to the number vs. date of manufacture listings found online today as a result.
Mike, good to see you back and in the mix ! Hope things are progressing well.

Akshulllllly, member Badenia put together a really well-researched list of Pan American serial numbers, starting with a registry of every example he could find....even ran it by Dr. Derksen over at Conn Loyalist for her input/approval.

I have a pdf copy if anyone wants it. I dunno if it ever made it to an online webpage itself.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
Joined
·
18,000 Posts
From what period dates this 10M stencil ? This is a Sherwood Master ...
Just as a clarification, although I know most of y'alll know this already - this is not a "10M stencil"

I have never actually seen a 10M stencil.

I do not believe there ever was such a thing.

Remember, a 10M stencil would mean the horn is an actual 10M...in every significant detail....just engraved with a different brand/name.

This isn't a 10M, in physical reality. It is a Pan American. Pan Ams became 16M's in 1957, BTW...(so essentially, yeah, it is also a 16M in a manner of speaking).
Pan Ams sometimes used the oval escutcheons and keyguard feet. That neck and neckbrace looks PanAm to me.

Conn stenciled Pan Americans under a lot of other names.

Pretty certain Conn never stenciled the 10M under any name but Conn, unless someone can direct me to one (?)

2Jazzy - if you know the serial number, I can cross reference per Badenia's Pan Am Serial list I have.....and figure out the approximate date.

It could be anywhere from mid-1930's-mid 1950's or so.

Good horns when put into good playing shape. Market value of THIS one, the Sherwood, would only be around $225-275 since it is not in playing condition.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
3,951 Posts
Just as a clarification - this is not a "10M stencil"

I have never actually seen a 10M stencil.

I do not believe there ever was such a thing.

Remember, a 10M stencil would mean the horn is an actual 10M...in every detail....just engraved with a different brand/name.

This isn't a 10M, in physical reality. It is a Pan American. Conn stenciled Pan Americans under a lot of otehr names. Conn never stenciled the 10M under any name but Conn.

Per Badenia's Pan Am Serial list I have.....this horn is
I was looking for brand not thinking of the 10m reference. I agree. Not 10m stencil. 16m maybe at best.
I thought Badenia’s Pan Am list is still in progress? So your observation is Pan Am made by Conn,Stenciled Sherwood. Makes sense to me.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013-
Joined
·
5,431 Posts
Does anyone have the serial number on this critter, "P" list or otherwise?

I did not see one in any photo, nor listed on the descriptions.

If the OP wants the date, then perhaps getting the serial number would be a place to look.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
3,951 Posts
Four days and no reply from the OP asking the questions. I’m suspicious the OP has disappeared.Humm, Why?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013-
Joined
·
5,431 Posts
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...-s-year-please&p=2068781&posted=1#post2068781

Pan American list (colors indicate a change in spec/design)

22,XXX, Alto New Wonder style, opp bellkeys, no front F, no tuner, squarish Conn pinky low C, chu-style spats, teardrop F#
P 25,617 Curvy sop, silver, big thumbhook, low D bis, squared off table, teardrop F#
P 32,808 Pan American str. Soprano, silver,squared off pinky table (not chu-esque), large thumbhoop, ovalized spats, bis key on low D
31,XXX Same as 22,XXX Alto above
37,XXX ~ c. 1929 Same as 22,XXX Alto above
43,655 Alto, silver, opp bellkeys, NW style, Fork Eb, no front F, no microtuner, squared pinky table no nailfile, chu style spats, teardrop F#,
46,7XX ~ c. early '30's Alto, same side bell keys, keyguards return to chims, primitive microtuner, lotsa engraving, silverplate, front F, no Fork Eb, rounded ovalized spats, teardrop F#, cannot see pinky clearly but likely square
46,8XX same as above, “Chauvet” stencil
54,040 Alto, “Bandmaster”, “42M”, lozenge bell escutcheon, oval spats, early 14M-esque table (maybe chu minus nailfile ?), primitive microtuner, teardrop F#, flat ferrules, no Fork keys
58,703 Alto silverplate, ‘58M’, keyguards return to chimneys, rounded pinky table & vito-style (triangular-ish) spats first appear, rounded-square F# trill replaces teardrop-style touch
63,176 Alto, “E” “58M”, simple block engraving, rounded pinky table, vito-style (triangular) spats, same side bellkeys return to chim, standard neck, rounded F# trill
104,201 Brass alto, simple block engraving, rounded pinky table, front F, same side bellkeys w/return into chimney, standard neck, vito style spat keys, rounded case, rounded F# trill
124,333 Identical above
145,059 Alto Brass, same as above
150,2XX Tenor w/ similar features to altos above (engraving, spats, F#, front F…can’t see pinky though)
150,368 Tenor, vito-style spat keys, F# rounded, rounded pinky table
155,326 ~ c. early-mid '50's Alto, ovalized spats (appear again), squarish 14M type table makes first appearance
156,031 Tenor same as Tenor above, definitely has rounded pinky table
165,985 ~ c. 1955 Alto, ovalized spats, early 14M type table, usual fat ferrules, rounded F# trill ~ identical to 14M Conn engraved horns
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Technician
Joined
·
3,408 Posts
'10M Stencils'.....................hm, these seem to be cropping up frequently. As Jaye pointed out there is no such thing,i'm seeing Pan Americans, Directors nowadays described erroneously-or-not-as 10m's. The givaway for me is always the 'lever G#" key-or lack of-only found to my knowledge on 10m,30m/6m,26m
and Martin Commitee horns.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top