[Jacques5646]

I'm the happy owner of a superb 1926 New Wonder (or New Wonder I) bari. Can anyone state the differences between this model and the Transitional ("a la" Mulligan) which appeared a couple of years later (apart from the position of the octave mechanism)?

 

[Bootman]

The differences are only slight and I think you will find that they are primarily the bell keys and a slightly more ergonomic left hand position. Intonation is also better on the Tranny models over the New wonder horns.

 

[ChuBerry47]

As was said for the left hand, there is a sculpted high "E" side key. Again as was said, the intonation is better by the movement of the second octave key to a higher location. They are much prettier too by the engravings. They also have a Front "F" key which is not on the 12m, or the Series II.

 

[Seasax]

i think you'll find that 12ms have got a front f key chu.

 

[ChuBerry47]

Are you Sure? Gary Smullyan's 12m does not have one. Which I believe was given to him by Gerry Mulligan when he (Gary) was, younger. Would it be the ealier models, or the later models? He does a hell of a good job without it, considering all of the notes that he plays that would utilize it if he had it. That is what happens when you practice with the same sax for so long.

 

[Grumps]

The Series I New Wonder bari's are only keyed to Eb3. They'll also play whack sharp with anything but an old, fat, pickle-barrel style mouthpiece or a modern large chambered piece with an extra long shank.

 

[Little Sax]

As was said for the left hand, there is a sculpted high "E" side key. Again as was said, the intonation is better by the movement of the second octave key to a higher location. They are much prettier too by the engravings. They also have a Front "F" key which is not on the 12m, or the Series II.

Actually I think that only the very late model Tranny-12Ms have Front-Fs on them. I've played one that did, but my #259xxx does not have one.

 

[Jacques5646]

Thanks for all these contributions.
Just for information, the horn has been slightly upgraded by bari specialist extraordinaire from Germany B. Waltersbacher (Lahr, germany): replacement of the vertical thumb octave button by a lateral "a la Selmer" left thumb button, linearization of the left hand fifth finger G# button (moves vertically instead of rotating on a side axle) and repositioning of the hanging ring.
As far as intonation is concerned, if no older big chamber mpc available or wanted, a neck extension or a long-shank mouthpiece is of course needed (remarkable experience made with a David Jary custom mpc: very reasonable price, perfect workmanship, fine tuning to your desired sound). Then stays the problem of the ultra sharp upper D, D#, F, F#: THE solution has been the insertion of semi-moon-like cork pieces which lessen the opening (approx 1/8) of four lower end holes .
Back to my initial question, my main concern was to know if structural changes (shape, metal, dimensions) had been introduced between the New Wonder and the Tranny; seems this has not happened.
Thanks again.

 

[Bootman]

The 12M of post WWII have front F keys, the tranny models dont have a front F key. I have added a non destructive front F ley to my tranny Bari that is attached via the lyre screw. This is a non standard item on the tranny Baris. Mine is a 246K.

Jacques,
The upgraded selmer octave key isn't really necessary, the Conn mechanism works fantastically when it is set up properly. Neck extrensions aren't needed provided you use a large chamber mpc. I have no intonation hassles using a Lamberson 8DD which has enough power to sail over a bigband in full cry and bury trumpet players at will.

 

[ChuBerry47]

Actually I think that only the very late model Tranny-12Ms have Front-Fs on them. I've played one that did, but my #259xxx does not have one.

Mulligan's split bell key model had one too. I saw one on ebay that had the split bell keys, and was satin gold, and had the front "F". Do you mean the Trannies with the aligned bell keys?,

 

[Little Sax]

Mulligan's split bell key model had one too. I saw one on ebay that had the split bell keys, and was satin gold, and had the front "F". Do you mean the Trannies with the aligned bell keys?,

I've played two tranny's, mine and the later model that had the Front-F. The owner/dealer made a big deal about that one having a Front-F as he said they were pretty rare in the tranny-run. My tranny does not have split-bell keys. I'm not sure about Mulligan's horns, or if they were ordered special.

 

[Grumps]

I'm the happy owner of a superb 1926 New Wonder (or New Wonder I) bari.

Wait a minute... that would be a Series II, or Chu Berry. Now wonder you're getting F and F#3, as it's keyed up to F3.

 

[Jacques5646]

To Bootman: right, the "a la Selmer" octave key in no necessity but was already installed at the time of buying (the original version was damaged).

To Grumps and other connoisseurs: I'd be happy to have your opinion about the actual model I'm playing. S/N is M 156765, apparently class of 1926. Keyed to High F, no front F, octave hole on the side of the neck. Thanks for your contribution.

 

[Grumps]

Yeah, yours is a bit more advanced than my Series I (which is only keyed to Eb3). Tranny bari's are often considered the best of Conn's offerings, but much of that is probably based upon the notoriety of a certain famous player who played one. Yours probably compares very favorably to one. I know the sound of mine does, and it's only a Series I.

 

[Jacques5646]

... that's the impression I gathered too. The only question left is for the player to honour this fantastic instrument...but this is my problem !
Keep swinging.
J

 

[Bootman]

The Tranny model is the most free blowing and powerful Bari I have found. The lack of a low A isn't really a big issue, the old leg over the bell trick works well.

If you want a thunderous low A bari with power in the mid range and an enormous sound then you have to go for the Holy Grail model, Martin Magna Low A. This horn is almost as good as as a Tranny Bari in power dept and it has a low A. There is a huge bell on these Magna Baris.

 

[Jacques5646]

I actually am not in need of a low A: I've been playing a Low A Selmer from the early eighties (supposedly a Mark VII but Selmer never really changed its tooling for the bari and thus it was "de facto" a Mark VI) for twenty years and recently couldn't resist a switch to the wonderful sound of the Conn I mentioned in my thread. By the way, after close scrutiny, it's definitely a NW Series 2 (keyed to F, double octave mechanism); I do think its sounds is close to your Chu's and Tranny's. Have you ever tried a NW 2 ?
And thanks for the advice about the Magna. It looks impressive and might be my choice if I get involved in any project where a low A is really needed. The problem will be the market: such monsters don't appear frequently on eBay or Saxontheweb.
Thanks again
J

 

[silverselmer]

out of curiosity, does anybody know what year smulyan's bari is from? is it a tranny or straight up 12M??