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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone tried one of Ton Kooiman's Forza thumb rests on a Keilwerth horn?

I've been thinking about getting one of these for my tenor for years, but I can't find one anywhere nearby to test out.
However, as long someone can confirm that it actually fits, I'm willing to import it without trying it first.

I started using one of his Maestro thumbrests on clarinet about a year ago and it made a night and day difference in my playing comfort, in my willingness to practice clarinet for extended periods, and, consequently, in my technical skill and sound on the clarinet.
 

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Has anyone tried one of Ton Kooiman's Forza thumb rests on a Keilwerth horn?

I've been thinking about getting one of these for my tenor for years, but I can't find one anywhere nearby to test out.
However, as long someone can confirm that it actually fits, I'm willing to import it without trying it first.
Can you just ask whoever you are importing it from? I have one on my MK VI tenor, so I know it fits the Selmer, but I have no idea if it fits a Keilworth. It is a really nice thumb rest, so hopefully it will fit. Maybe someone can give you a definitive answer on here.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I suspect that the shop will tell me that it does fit, since Keilwerth is listed among the compatible brands here.

However, I'd like to get confirmation that it works from someone who has actually used it. I know that the Keilwerth thumbrests are substantially different from the Selmer/Yamaha style, and it would be a hassle (and expensive) to return the Forza overseas if it does not work.
 

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Yeah, I understand your concern. However, I just took a look at it and the Forza attaches with one screw (the same screw that held the original thumb hook). So it seems it would fit almost any horn that uses a single screw to hold the thumb rest. It wouldn't work on some vintage horns, like my Buescher on which the thumb rest is soldered on.

So if your Keilwerth thumb rest is secured with a single screw, the Forza should work. And I doubt they'd list it if it didn't. Note they don't list any vintage American horns such as the Buescher I mentioned.
 

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Just tried it on my Couf and it did not fit. The base plate is different shape and the screw is too short. On my MVI the "screw" is actually a female threaded receiver and the post is male threaded, which allows for the receive to slide up into the thumb rest slot, if that makes sense. A long enough screw on the Couf might overcome that. Anyway, I didn't think it would be a good fit for the Couf. Did not really take time to look for solutions. I have no idea how this would relate to other Keilwerths. Post a photo of the base plate and screw for your Keilwerth and I could probably have a pretty good idea if it will work.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Just tried it on my Couf and it did not fit. The base plate is different shape and the screw is too short. On my MVI the "screw" is actually a female threaded receiver and the post is male threaded, which allows for the receive to slide up into the thumb rest slot, if that makes sense. A long enough screw on the Couf might overcome that. Anyway, I didn't think it would be a good fit for the Couf. Did not really take time to look for solutions. I have no idea how this would relate to other Keilwerths. Post a photo of the base plate and screw for your Keilwerth and I could probably have a pretty good idea if it will work.
Thanks for doing this. However, I think that the Couf thumbrest designs are quite different from those of modern SX90s.

Anyway, here are a few pictures of the thumbrest, plate, and screw on my SX90R:

View attachment 242728 View attachment 242730 View attachment 242732 View attachment 242734

FWIW, I got an email back from the shop (Thomann) saying specifically that it fits the SX90R. I'm still skeptical, but at least they've confirmed that it's supposed to fit this particular model.
 

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Based on your photos, it looks like the Forza would fit on that horn. The mounting and screw looks similar to my MKVI, at least what I can see looking at it with the Forza mounted on it.

Worst case scenario, you have to send it back and get your money back. I'd risk it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This is another alternative to the Forza. Never tried a Forza or this, but have several friends using this thumb rest on their Keilwerths. A few who actually like it too

http://www.schuchtsaxtechnology.com/Thumb_Hooks/thumb_hooks.html
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm looking for an ergonomic improvement and these look functionally pretty similar to the existing thumb hook.

Moreover, the manufacturer claims that: "SST Thumb Hooks change the sound and response of all saxophone makes and types from soprano to baritone. The changes are significant."

I don't buy into the mass attachment voodoo, so statements like these are a red flag for me.
 

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Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm looking for an ergonomic improvement and these look functionally pretty similar to the existing thumb hook.

Moreover, the manufacturer claims that: "SST Thumb Hooks change the sound and response of all saxophone makes and types from soprano to baritone. The changes are significant."

I don't buy into the mass attachment voodoo, so statements like these are a red flag for me.
+1. Maybe that particular thumb rest would be a bit more comfortable than the stock one (or not), but it doesn't do what the Forza does. The Forza is adjustable; it can be rotated sideways and then locked into whatever angle is most comfortable for you.
 

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I put a Forza thumbrest on my Keilwerth SX 90II soprano and it works just fine.
 

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One thing to consider is that a Forza thumbrest adds a bit of bulk to the instrument (soprano anyway) so make sure your case will support that and still be able to hold the instrument.
 

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So sorry I missed your reply earlier. I think I was away. I tried again, and it doesn't fit my Couf. The setup is similar to your K. The issue is the length of the screw, so there could be a work around. Here are some pics:
View attachment 250034 View attachment 250036 View attachment 250038 View attachment 250040

I think I names some of the pictures backwards. I you look at the Forxa base, you can see the high ridge that surrounds the mounting slot. That prevents the screws from reaching the threads. On. my VI, the post is threaded and the screw is actually a receiver, so it works.

Peter
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just a quick follow-up for anyone who might be interested.

I ended up importing a couple of these, and it fits and feels great on my Keilwerth SX90R Tenor. I've included a photo of it below.

View attachment 253718

It's also worth mentioning that this thumbrest is much more substantial than it looks in pictures. I've included a picture of it next to my original Keilwerth thumbrest for comparison.

View attachment 253720

It's obviously much larger than the original, but doesn't seem to affect the fit of my tenor in its case (a ProTec XL).

I bought two of these in the hopes that one might work on my SX90 soprano (and to reduce the effective shipping cost per piece). However, it might be a bit bulky for the soprano.
I'll try it later today. If its too big, I'll probably end up listing it in the marketplace.
 

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mmichel,
you think that it may also fit on SX90 Alto?
The pieces looks the same
 

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Discussion Starter #17
mmichel,
you think that it may also fit on SX90 Alto?
The pieces looks the same
Yes, it should definitely work. I don't own an SX90 alto, but I know that the baseplate and screw are identical.

The one thing that could potentially make it a slightly tighter fit is the spacing between the thumbrest and the F# trill keycup, but on my tenor there's quite a gap remaining (as you can see in the picture below) so I don't anticipate it being a problem for alto.

View attachment 253724

I haven't tried it yet on soprano, where the thumbrest-to-F# spacing is more likely to be a problem.
 

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Hey, glad it worked out for you mmichel. These really are comfortable. I've never regretted getting the one I have.
 

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Yes, it should definitely work. I don't own an SX90 alto, but I know that the baseplate and screw are identical.

The one thing that could potentially make it a slightly tighter fit is the spacing between the thumbrest and the F# trill keycup, but on my tenor there's quite a gap remaining (as you can see in the picture below) so I don't anticipate it being a problem for alto.

View attachment 253724

I haven't tried it yet on soprano, where the thumbrest-to-F# spacing is more likely to be a problem.
I have the Forza on my Borgani tenor and alto, and it works well there - love ‘em. On the soprano, it does interfere with key clearance, but for now I’d rather have the comfortable thumbrest than an alternate key.

Since my sop is unlacquered, I am considering moving the base to have the best of all worlds.
 
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