[Joeywhat]

is don't do it...yes I know.

But I have some questions regarding giving my sax a proper cleaning. It's very old, and probably hasn't been properly cleaned in 30+ years if ever. It's a The Martin tenor that I believe is from the mid 40's. I am wanting to take it all apart, give everything a solid cleaning then put it all back together. Pads and springs are all in decent shape, so I wouldn't be touching those. There are a few semi-weak springs I might replace if I can get a hold of some springs for cheap, but that's not a priority.

Anyways I'm curious to know what chemicals (if any) are safe to use on the sax without destroying it. I don't care if it looks nice and shiny, but it needs to lose the dust and dirt that's been accumulating since forever, and portions of it have started turning green and orange. I'd like to get rid of that stuff, too. I was planning on just using a microfiber towel to get most of the crud off, maybe get it a little wet if there's some sticky stuff on there. Then follow up with a light coat of oil on everything metal.

And before anyone passes out from the horror of my doing work on such a great horn, I will say I do similar work for my day job. I'm a gunsmith, so I've taken apart plenty of stupid complicated guns and put them back together the right way...so I'm not just some moron that had a 'brilliant' idea one day and got out the hammer and a way too big screwdriver. And I would have a pro do the work but I don't have the cash, plus I rolled my ankle this weekend and am not supposed to walk for a while, so this will keep me busy.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Dr G]

Meguiar's Cleaner/Polish is what I prefer on lacquered parts. Juan Caino (aka jicaino) makes a great case for using carnuba on bare brass. You'll find that a light coat of oil on exposed surfaces will attract dust and make a real mess of things. Lube is better suited to the interior of rods, pivots, and all things mechanical.

Then follow up with a light coat of oil on everything metal.

P.S. Regarding the gunsmithing side of things, have you comments to share on the best values in .45 autos in the circa kilodollar range (esp. Kimber)?

 

[Little Sax]

This article is using a Conn as an example, but it may be of some help.

I would assume that your horn is lacquered and not bare metal of any kind?

 

[paulwl]

Some of my rules of home sax repair:

1. Measure cork twice, cut once, sand more times than you can count.
2. Put the upper stack keys in a box. Put the lower stack keys in another box. Put the rods back in the keys and the keys back on the rods. Put the screws in a little bag in the box with the keys they came from. Go out in the backyard. Scream.
3. Make every effort to avoid needle spring injury. Realize, however, that it is ultimately futile.
4. Rule 3 also applies to f'ing up screw heads.
5. If it leaks and the leak light doesn't show it, heat and reseat. If it still leaks, take it to a pro.
6. Pliers marks never come out.
7. Resist the urge to swedge. It is black magic.
8. If you're doing it on your lap, it could be done better.
9. The amount of workspace you need is what you have available plus 20%.
10. The amount of light: what's available +50%.
11. Supplies and tools: what's available x 2.

 

[Joeywhat]

I do have some Meguires Carnauba wax on hand I used for my car...I could try finishing it up with that. I think I may actually have some polish around as well. Will give it a try in an inconspicuous area and see how it goes. The horn is lacquered although quite a bit of it is now gone.

As far as .45's go, I'm a HUGE fan of the Smith and Wesson M&P45. I'm also not a fan of the 1911. I've found through my own experiences that you really need to spend a good $1500 on one to get one that works. And I've had a lot of issues with newer Kimbers, I just avoid them entirely. Then again, I shoot a LOT, so if a gun has any issues at all I'm sure to find them rather quickly. I know a lot of people love their Kimbers and other 1911s, and I'm not going to say they're wrong for doing so...in that regard, get what you like, I'm just relaying my experiences on the matter. I did have an older Kimber (Series I, at least a good 10-15 years old) that mostly worked. It needed a little tweaking but was otherwise pretty solid. I'd go for the older Kimbers over the newer ones, or you can't go wrong with something like a Colt series 70 or a Springfield Loaded or Mil Spec.

As far as the M&P45 goes, it's not much bigger then a 1911 (grip width is slightly wider, otherwise about same size), has a larger capacity magazine, and with some fine tuning and a few aftermarket parts the trigger becomes very acceptable, especially if you're used to a 1911 style trigger. The best part (for me at least) is that they work...very few failures I've seen or experienced with them, and I carry an M&P in 9mm every day. Best part about the M&P? You're looking at $600 MAX for one in .45 ACP. Take the money you saved from buying a $1000 1911 and buy a bunch of ammo.

 

[ratracer]

Rule Number 1 - Do no harm to the saxophone
Rule Number 2 - Until you're reasonably educated to ensure Rule Number 1 - repeat Rule Number 1

:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

From the OP, sounds like you are well on your way! Good luck!!

 

[Stephen Howard]

If you're going to completely dismantle it you might as well give the body a wash.
Lukewarm soapy water is what you'll need. You can use plain detergent, but I find a non-waxing carwash is better as it doesn't contain salt and is purposely developed for lacquered surfaces.
Use a soft paintbrush to work up a lather. You will probably need to rinse and repeat...there will always be a few spots you missed first time around.
While you're at it, give the bore a good scrub too. You'll need a suitable bottle brush - and you'll probably have to attach it to a long handle. A piece of dowel will do.

Once clean, pat dry - don't rub as this can cause smearing. If you have an airline you can use this to get the remaining drops out of the pillars, otherwise a little plastic tube in your mouth will do just fine, followed up with a pipe cleaner through the pillars. Make sure you wipe the springs down too. Hang it up somewhere warm to dry off, or give it a few minutes with a hair dryer on a low heat.

If you want to polish it at this point, use a car wax. I use Mer, but any decent brand (like Dr G's Meguiar's) will do. It'll go over bare brass just fine.

Skip the coating of oil - but feel free to give the springs a bit of a wipe over with a very slightly oily cloth.

I'll tell you what I'd do though, if I had a bare Martin in front of me...
Get yourself a tin of cigarette lighter fluid and before you wash the horn drizzle a little of it around the outside of each tone hole in turn. Look inside the tone hole to see if any of it soaks through. If it does, you have a leaking tone hole - and now would be a good time to get it fixed.

Hope the ankle gets better soon. I do that from time to time - once did it while jumping down the last three steps before heading out of the house to travel to France for a gig. That was fun.

Regards,

 

[Joeywhat]

Thanks for the advice on the tone holes, I will give that a try. As it happens I also brew beer, so I have a variety of brushes that should work fine for cleaning the bore. I do have some excellent car wash concentrate that should work well, too.

 

[jazzbluescat]

Our local shop used to break the horn down, then "acid" dip/bathe the body (and keys). Note: "acid" was actually a very strong detergent. Then "sanded" any rust from the rods using very fine steel wool, then lubricate. That will pretty much take care of cleaning the metal. [A motorbike shop might have a dip setup for exhaust pipes & stuff?]

BTW:

1. When you have it apart don't worry about putting it back together, everything goes back only one way.
2. Rearrange pivot screws if they want to work out/unscrew.

 

[JL]

Lots of great advice from experts in the above posts. However, I have a slightly different take on this. Especially given this quote:

But I have some questions regarding giving my sax a proper cleaning. It's very old, and probably hasn't been properly cleaned in 30+ years if ever..

If the horn hasn't had a proper cleaning in 30+ years, then it also hasn't had an overhaul in 30+ years. If it hasn't had an overhaul in 30+ years, then it probably is in need of an overhaul, assuming you want it to play at its best. What I'd do in your situation is bite the bullet and pay a good, reputable tech to do an overhaul. The horn will get cleaned up in the process and the really important thing--playing condition--will be taken care of.

 

[Joeywhat]

I thought about that but it plays really well right now. The pads are good, they may have been changed right before I bought it, and any leaks would be quite small as like I said - it plays very well.

I would probably look into that a bit more closely if I had the money, but from what I've seen a complete overhaul will cost me North of $500, and I can't justify those expenses on a horn that plays fine.

 

[Johnboy]

The First Rule Of Home Sax Repair should be to get Stephen Howards Haynes Saxophone Manual! It is INVALUABLE!!!!

 

[JL]

I would probably look into that a bit more closely if I had the money, but from what I've seen a complete overhaul will cost me North of $500, and I can't justify those expenses on a horn that plays fine.

That's understandable, but "plays fine" is a relative term. I recently thought my tenor was playing fine, except for a slight resistance in the low register. I took it in, it was full of leaks, a few pads needed replacing (far short of an overhaul), and when it was finished it played like a completely different horn. Much, much better. I had got used to how it was playing since the leaks had developed so gradually, over time. And I did have it overhauled several years ago, which is why it needed less work this time around.

Maybe your horn doesn't need a complete overhaul, but if it hasn't had one in over 30 years, I'd bet it still needs some work. You might be amazed at how much better the horn would play after whatever work it needs (a good repair tech could advise you on that). My point is, if you are going to take it completely apart, that's a big part of what happens for an overhaul. I wouldn't take a horn apart (or have it taken apart) simply to clean it, without also replacing pads or attending to any other work it might need, which is far more important (to me anyway) than a polishing. Might as well do both if you're going to take the horn apart. Just a thought.

 

[1saxman]

I could write a book on this topic, but for now keep in mind that the pivot screws are fitted at the factory. If the keys secured by screws at each end are not loose or too tight now, maybe the screws are still in their original positions - keep them that way. Use the right screwdriver for every screw and rod. Do not 'booger-up' the screw heads. If you do, I'll find out about it and take you for a little ride - from which only I will return. Capite?

Now, here's a revolutionary idea - you only need to wash a stuffable sax once, then you use stuffers in the body, bell and neck from then on. A bari is not stuffable as far as I know because of the upper double bow, and that's where the crud grows. Anyway, after everything is done, and you always use stuffers, all you have to do then is to oil the sax frequently and 'Pledge' it about four times a year. You simply spray Pledge on a section at a time, then wipe it off using cloths, Q-Tips and strips of rag for the tighter/inaccessible areas. Don't forget to wash all your stuffers every so often depending on how often you play, and let them dry thoroughly before using. Oh, yeah, 'Pledge' the pads too. It's the best thing for them I've seen.

 

[1saxman]

Hey, John; that is a great picture of you playing. Looks like you're upstairs around an A3 or so - hard to see for sure. I look just like that except I'm balder, shorter and fatter, with no beard. But I play that same note! LOL

 

[ikbtops]

...is you do not talk about home sax repair.
Second rule of home sax repair- you DO NOT talk about home sax repair.

 

[bari_sax_diva]

A bari is not stuffable as far as I know because of the upper double bow, and that's where the crud grows.

Actually, Hodge Products makes a terrific swab for just this purpose. It's some sort of flexible rod covered with foam and silk, and my bari crook has been sparkling clean since I discovered it.

That first time you use it, though, is REALLY scary.

 

[martinm5862]

Actually, Hodge Products makes a terrific swab for just this purpose. It's some sort of flexible rod covered with foam and silk, and my bari crook has been sparkling clean since I discovered it.

That first time you use it, though, is REALLY scary.

Yeah. I had to wash it after the first three times I used it. Scary is a good description.

 

[Little Sax]

[...]That first time you use it, though, is REALLY scary.

Amen!

 

[Smooth Sop Berator]

Your fingers are going to look like pincushions, impaled multiple times by the needle springs, so hopefully your tetanus shots are up to date.