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A year or so ago when I was considering buying one of the Chinese baris the conclusion I reached was this: there seems to be no way to know what a person is buying. Some of the Ebay sellers from Taiwan might just as well be selling horns that were made in mainland China in the factory owned by a third cousin from the old country. Not necessarily a bad thing, mind you. Or is the horn in a given Ebay ad the same horn as one made for X, where X is anyone of a number of North American or European retailers who buy saxes in large quantities [or small] and have the name of their house brand engraved on the bell. Again, not necessarily a bad thing.........Does Taishan make Jupiter? Does Jupiter make Taishan? Who makes X? Who made their horns last year, the year before? Does it matter if we know? I suspect that there is some considerable continuity as tooling up to produce saxes can't be done overnight. Is is just my sense that everything happens behind a curtain which is opened from time to time for a hand to reach through and present for our appreciation yet another first-quality, professional-quality, hi-quality, perfect-intonation, shipped-for-free, your-name-and-logo-on-the-bell baritone sax...

From here on the coast of Oregon it is pretty difficult to test a horn in Taiwan or China, or for that matter in Las Vegas or NY or New Orleans or LA, so the logical course might be to buy from a retailer of some repute. But then I feel led back to the question: is the horn from retailer X [a guy in a suburb of Metropolis] any different than the horn from retailer Q [a guy who has HIS name on horns]? Are the Chinese horns made in one country or another, in one factory or another; will any of these be in business next week, next year? Early days yet...

Are all Chinese baris really first class, professional instruments? Are bari saxes now disposable consumer items such that a thorough overhaul costs as much as a new instrument? Buy, use, discard, recycle, buy, use, discard.....

As Chinese / Taiwanese brands become known under their own makers' names and then the horns they make for others become stencils, then will we be able to at least have a sense that the horn being written about is stenciled X, but is made by Y. This calls to mind the period when Yanagisawa made Astros and Martins and Vitos until Yangisawas could simply be Yangisawas. Some confusion then, I expect, in the same way that there is some confusion about the infamous Chinese bari now....interesting times, eh? Rick
 

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From here on the coast of Oregon it is pretty difficult to test a horn in Taiwan or China, or for that matter in Las Vegas or NY or New Orleans or LA, so the logical course might be to buy from a retailer of some repute.
Great points. Well, wherever in Asia the horns are made and by whom.... many seem to offer a 14 day return policy. That was enough insurance for me to try one sight-unheard.

(hey, there's a "riqmar" on "brol"... I wonder if you are him?)
 

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Well guys, keep in mind that the returns cost are kinda prohibitive as Grumps mentionned.......They used ESM ( Express Mail China ) to ship but we don't have this luxury of course.....With UPS and FEDEX it might end up costing you around the same or more than the price of the horn! No jokes! I tried with a MAXTONE BARITONE in Japan i saw (that was a steal!) a few moths ago, and the cost with UPS was just under 800$ dollars! So imagine from China....I gave up the idea quite fast.....
I totally understand the confusion about the horns Riqmar pointed ...I bought a TAISHAN after much research ( a couple of months worth actually since i could not try the horn i worked hard at making sure it was at least playable...needless to say i was a nervous wreck when it arrived!!! :) ) and they produce their own stuff and brand their own instruments at ther factory...The guy who sells it to you is another story all together!!!.....A year after my purchase + 300$ worth of tuning-up at my tech + a brand new case, i am totally happy and satisfied with this horn, it's a unbelievable buy for the price....The bottom line is that you can't have have it all if you don't or can't pay for a more reputable brand.....You have to take a risk....I bought it and took a 1400$ gamble.....Better than a 10 000$ one for a Selmer or any other big four horn that i could not afford anyway at that time.......It also comes with a really, really ****** case that is going to fall apart quite fast ( after 15-20 gigs to be precise in my case )...Its pretty much only for transportation/temporary protection purpose... At that price, you take a calculated risk though....Do you homeworks ( READ, SEARCH AND DESTROY AS THEY SAY !!! :)) and keep in mind that you'll have a couple hundred more to spend to make it gig ready ( if you are a pro or a gigging amateur because they DO PLAY RIGHT OUT THE BOX, at least mine was) and to make personal adjustment if needed and a new case....You'll be ready to go after that...!
 

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Yeah - that's why if I decide to buy a Chinese bari it will be from Just Saxes. Basically what you're telling me is; $1400 for the horn + $300 for setup + $200 for a new case. or $1900- Just Saxes bari $1800 already setup with a decent case + shipping gets me to about the same place and if I really don't like it I'm sending it back to CA not ROC.
 

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Yeah - that's why if I decide to buy a Chinese bari it will be from Just Saxes. Basically what you're telling me is; $1400 for the horn + $300 for setup + $200 for a new case. or $1900- Just Saxes bari $1800 already setup with a decent case + shipping gets me to about the same place and if I really don't like it I'm sending it back to CA not ROC.
Yes, i think this would be a smart choice. The guy at justsaxes is a renowned tech and looks like a good person too.....It's basicly the same type of horn + all the adjustments made already and a new case...You're totally right!
 

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For a Yamaha!? No doubt the choice is obvious....1800$ is kinda cheap i totally agree...i would go for that too without any hesitation!
I love my baritone but its not a Yamaha.....Or (even better) a Yani...very far from that, build wise....
The less than beautyful part is not important.....Even the new ones gets dirty and get scratched very quickly when you gig a lot...Mine already start to look worn out! Hey, i like a horn with battle scars! :) Actually, i never meet any real good player with a pristine horn, unless it was new of course....!
 

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My problem with any of the Chinese, or even the Taiwanese brands with little history, is the availability of replacement parts down the road. The bari is more likely to get damaged than any other sax voice, and one of the major brands is much more likely to be easy to find parts for. Parts can always be made, but then the repair costs of the cheaper horns outweighs the same with a more prominent brand, closing that cost of ownership gap. Just a consideration. A budget is what it is.
 

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My problem with any of the Chinese, or even the Taiwanese brands with little history, is the availability of replacement parts down the road. The bari is more likely to get damaged than any other sax voice, and one of the major brands is much more likely to be easy to find parts for. Parts can always be made, but then the repair costs of the cheaper horns outweighs the same with a more prominent brand, closing that cost of ownership gap. Just a consideration. A budget is what it is.[/QUOTE

Indeed, the bari is the bulkiest and most prone to damage ...totally true. For the parts though, it's pretty much all the same Morry...Unless you need an original neck or something like that, i don't think that could be a problem.....The only one i can see is the type of screws used...in that sense i agree.....Cheap horns used the pseudo type or parallel points screws instead of proper point screws which don't have the same leeway in adjusting the action on the long term....Even then, P.Mauriat horns use the pseudo-type...so go figure... They are making a reputation for themselves has '' MAURIATTLES '' amongst the tech trade world....Great horns, no doubt, but they need to address that...if you have a good tech, you're in bussines because it's fairly an easy fix even after the action wears out...it's going to cost a bit more but it's fixable ....the pillars, the pads, and most of the screws are of different quality but pretty standard... with my chinese Taishan, we fixed stuff and it wasn't an issue to change or replace the parts when i made the original tweaking after i bought...i even broke the little pin for the neck on a gig ( on my bassit P-bass fretboard!! ) and it wasn't even an issue....Is it the best bari and the last one i will buy? No, not in one hundred years but they made an unbelievable job for the price.....the tuning on this **** is remarkable for the value....
 

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I have to throw my two cents in here for the "cheap imports". I bought a used Taiwanese Buescher a couple of years ago and have never looked back. I DID have to have the Low A adjusted...but that was it. I use the Bari in a 9 piece sax ensemble, a couple of big bands and in the occasional pit orchestra. I've been told that I have a good sound on the Bari...but I need to project a little more. The search is on for a new mouthpiece...but for now, I'm using an unmarked Runyon that works well with the horn. I know people that use a Yamaha 52...only to get to a rehearsal or gig and have the bell keys fall off the horn. My Buescher is well made and heavy. Heavier than the Yamaha's. I used to be one of the "name brand only" type of guys until I tried this Buescher BU6 out. I now use an Orpheo Low C Bass Clarinet as well. I have to say, the imported sax's & clarinet's build quality has improved over the years.
 

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I'll finally get it right -- should have read "Tenon Industrial Co., Ltd." vs Teon Industries. A very good playing horn after pro set up by Ken Beason. Jacob Rodriguez from Michael Buble's band played it at Ken's shop and said it played just like his Selmer Super Action 80 bari.
 

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Taishan seems to be a Nice baritone, is there anyone that has the one called "Jinbao"?
 
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